When discussing Ross in Philadelphia, it seems ludicrous to discuss courses as far away as Scranton and others more than an hour away like Stonewall, French Creek, etc.  I mean in an hour you can be in New Jersey, Delaware and Maryland.  In my opinion, Philadelphia Ross includes Philadelphia and its suburbs.  If you want to talk Pennsylvania Ross, that's another matter.  As for the distribution of classic courses in the Philadelphia area among golf architects, doesn't Flynn's presence dominate like no other region in the country?  No wonder Ross was peeved about his lack of work in the area.

When discussing Ross in Philadelphia, it seems ludicrous to discuss courses as far away as Scranton and others more than an hour away like Stonewall, French Creek, etc.  I mean in an hour you can be in New Jersey, Delaware and Maryland.  In my opinion, Philadelphia Ross includes Philadelphia and its suburbs.  If you want to talk Pennsylvania Ross, that's another matter.  As for the distribution of classic courses in the Philadelphia area among golf architects, doesn't Flynn's presence dominate like no other region in the country?  No wonder Ross was peeved about his lack of work in the area.

There are GAP courses in all of the above areas.

The bumper bowling method of thread management, understood.

Ross IN Philadelphia would technically be Torresdale, then, no?  

To be honest, I had no idea Ross did more than Aronimink, T/F, Jeffersonville and Tom Paul Mills in the area.

To answer the original question (a good one):

If Ross in Philadelphia is anything higher than second teir. Ross would be overrated.

Having played the Flynns, Tillies, and walked the Wilson... Ross's cation in Philadelphia doesn't compare nearly as much. I would certainly hope his work in the area wasn't his most prolific - for his sake.

"I just realized they don't list Jeffersonville;one that I want to get back to play."

Mayday:

Jeffersonville never was listed as a Ross course. The owners of Jeffersonville (the township) went to great lengths to prove that Jeffersonville was a Ross course and they finally did that---in a manner of speaking. The Tufts library in Pinehurst had nothing on it and they told the township to search around the area of Jeffersonville to see if they could find anything and finally they did. Apparenlty they found some receipts from the Ross organization for Jeffersonville in some lady's attic. I'm not certain but I suspect that lady was J.B McGovern's daughter. She still lives there and I've spoken to her. She says that her father designed and built Jeffersonville, not Ross, even though he worked for Ross at the time. Apparently Ross may never have seen it although that would seem unlikely. To this lady Donald Ross was like her favorite uncle. She said he was in Philadelphia often and he was one of the nicest men she's ever known. His daughter Lillian lived above the Ross office in Wynnewood of which J.B McGovern was the office manager and Ross's primary foreman in this section of the country.

There's another architectural co-incidence involving Jeffersonville G.C. As most know the Fazios came from Norristown, where Jeffersonville G.C. is. Tom Fazio says it's the course he frequented most when he was a kid.

So if I were Tom MacWood I might conclude that the primary or most significant influence on a course such as Shadow Creek, and perhaps all the rest of Tom Fazio's portfolio must be none other than----Yup, you guessed it---little Jeffersonville G.C in Norristown Pa.  

Dave,

Ross's Sunnybrook course was substantially remodeled by Flynn in 1928 or so.  Some of Flynn's work can be still be seen on the remaining 9 holes that make up the current Flourtown CC.

I'm playing Ross's Torresdale-Frankford for the first time tomorrow in 60 degree weather.  That is if my shoulder doesn't give out.