Quote from: TEPaul on June 13, 2005, 03:39:43 PM

"I don't know much about the Crump Cup or other Top Am events but I'd be happy to bet $100 on Annika to win any Men's Am. anywhere anytime."

Ted:

I sure wouldn't go that far. But by the end of the summer we should get some kind of comparative indication on that. Tomorrow Sorenstam is going to play Merion East and that's why I think she shold play the new tips which are listed in the high 6800s. That would probably give you some kind of indication of how she might do if she played in this year's US Amateur at Merion.

You actually think she'd do OK against some kid like Ryan Moore? I don't.

He is exactly the guy I was thinking of when I was typing my post. And my answer is yes, I'd bet on Annika over him on any course playing 6,800 yards or less.

-Ted

Can I get some of that action??  I'd take Moore in a NY minute.

Ryan Moore has made the cut in two straight Master's as an Amateur.  Annika is fantastic, and would beat a large majority of top Mid-Am players, but I don't see her competing with a player of the calibre of Ryan Moore.

Don't forget...while a shorter course will benefit Annika, don't you think it would also benefit to a greater degree, a stronger player like Moore?

Ask Jamie Slonis about PVGC now and the Crump not me. Jamie almost won the Crump Cup last year and he's definitely going to win it one of these days, in my opinion.

I'll be flat out honest...although I've never seen Annika play in person, unless the golf course was extremely long, I think Annika would probably kick my A$$ seven ways til' Sunday!!  

She plays and practices everyday that she wants to.  She is by far the best female player in the world, and for a tournament level Mid-Am player to compete with her, we'd all have to quit our jobs so we could get out of the office and onto the Practice Range and Golf Course where she spends her ENTIRE day.

There are definitely days that I feel I could compete with a player like Annika, but certainly not on a consistant basis.  

Quote from: Ted Kramer on June 13, 2005, 03:50:04 PM

Quote from: TEPaul on June 13, 2005, 03:39:43 PM

"I don't know much about the Crump Cup or other Top Am events but I'd be happy to bet $100 on Annika to win any Men's Am. anywhere anytime."

Ted:

I sure wouldn't go that far. But by the end of the summer we should get some kind of comparative indication on that. Tomorrow Sorenstam is going to play Merion East and that's why I think she shold play the new tips which are listed in the high 6800s. That would probably give you some kind of indication of how she might do if she played in this year's US Amateur at Merion.

You actually think she'd do OK against some kid like Ryan Moore? I don't.

He is exactly the guy I was thinking of when I was typing my post. And my answer is yes, I'd bet on Annika over him on any course playing 6,800 yards or less.

-Ted

Ted - Ryan Moore made the cut twice at Augusta. He's made several cuts and finished fairly well in other PGA tour events.  I followed him every shot of his semi last year at the US Am and there is NO WAY Annika could compete with him on any course at any length - period.  His short game is MILES ahead of hers. He is a magician around the greens and makes every putt he needs to.  He will win on tour within a year.

Well I guess the conversation is over, I didn't know that you could turn hypotheticals into fact with such clarity and ease. . .

Thanks for your opinion.

-Ted

"I'll be flat out honest...unless the golf course was extremely long, I think Annika would kick my A$$ seven ways til' Sunday!!"

I wouldn't say something like that Jamie. The only thing I can see really hurting you day in and day out against a game like Sorenstam's is a little too much of a lack of consistency for the very reasons you just gave compared to the way she plays. Face it, Sorestam is like a virtual human robot she's so consistent. But if you brought your A game I really doubt she could stick right with you on a man-sized golf course. She may be the greatest woman ever but she's still a woman and I'd still offer to room with her at the Crump, but I doubt I'd do the same with you and I think you'd agree unless you want to see what snoring that sounds like a 737 taking off sounds like.

Tom,

It is hard to say for sure because I've never really seen the top flight LPGA players play up close.  I'm sure many of the top Mid-Am's could compete with her when they had their "A" games clicking.  We just don't have the robotic consistency that she seems to possess.

"Tom,
It is hard to say for sure because I've never really seen the top flight LPGA players play up close."

I haven't either. I did go out and officiate the USGA Men's Publinx qualifier that Wie was in last year and I was about as impressed by her as I expected to be. If that young lady learns how to really chip and putt consistently well the rest of the LPGA better watch out for her too.

Annika never ceases to amaze me, and I probably wouldn't want to bet much if anything against her...

HOWEVER, she missed the cut at Colonial by what, 3, 4, 5 shots?

Good Lord, Moore finished something like 12th or 13th at The Masters in '04. I can't remember what he finished this year.

I wouldn't bet on Annika against any tour pro, regardless of the course, except maybe a par 3 course that was set up very easily. She might win against someone occasionally, and she is just amazing enough that if she spent a few years really working on head to head, she might raise her game up to eventually be competitive, but the bottom line is right now she still loses straight up way more often than not.

And she's still totally unbelievable. Does anyone know what odds they're giving for her to win the Grand Slam? It has to be ridiculously low.

Although she looks extremely fit and strong, I would say that she'll have some trouble with the length and thickness of the rough, that is if she ever gets in it.  Also, like Tom said, if the conditions were similar to what they can and do get the course like for the Wilson and what it will likely be like for the Amateur, she'll have some pretty interesting plays to the greens.  Her play around the greens will really dictate the kind of number she'll shoot.  Then there's the last line of defense; the greens themselves.  It'll be interesting to see how she putts on them.  I saw Ernie Els putting on 14 through 17 last week and he didn't look like he had them figured out.  Now he was playing in an outing for some banker types so who knows how hard he was trying; but he sure as heck wasn't trying to miss.

I've never been to an LPGA event, but aren't there pretty big differences between the course setups for the big tour and the ladies?  For that matter, there's probably a huge difference between course setup on the big tour and the senior circuit.

I watched Ryan Moore last year and if his game was totally on, I guess he could be Annika; but all the time?  I'm not so sure.  I think she'd win less than half the time, but not much.  

The course set-up and yardage is key, but I'd guess she plays Merion 3-4 strokes higher but if it is as SPDB predicts, I wouldn't be surprised.  It's gonna be hot and humid tomorrow too, so the conditions should be similar.

Well, the early word from some "eyes" around the Valley is that Annika Sorenstam shot a 69 today at PVGC from somewhere around the front to mid part of the back tees. That sounds to me like the back tee markers. The word filtering out from some who watched her down there is that they've never seen anyone hit the ball SO straight all day long and for those who know PVGC that's sort of what it takes.

A 69! That's really something. I'm a believer. She just lowered the lady's course record by three shots (Beth Daniel shot 72 in 1995 from 6400yds). If Sorenstam really did play from the back tees markers somewhere around the front to mid part of the back tees then that would mean she probably played the course at around 6900 because the back tees are now listed at 6999yds. (I had breakfast with Mr Brewer down there about a month ago and I had the card in my hand and told him; "Gordon, I just know I can find you one more yard out there", but he said; "That just happened to be the way it came in.").

Annka Sorenatam, you really are incredible. Let her into the Curmp Cup!! She might win it and I swear I really will offer to room with her once a get a close look at her!  

Oh, that's right I don't even play in it anymore but if I did play in it from where she apparently just did I estimate she would've clipped me by about 21 shots!  

Well, the early word from some "eyes" around the Valley is that Annika Sorenstam shot a 69 today at PVGC from somewhere around the front to mid part of the back tees. That sounds to me like the back tee markers. The word filtering out from some who watched her down there is that they've never seen anyone hit the ball SO straight all day long and for those who know PVGC that's sort of what it takes.

A 69! That's really something. I'm a believer. She just lowered the lady's course record by three shots (Beth Daniel shot 72 in 1995 from 6400yds). If Sorenstam really did play from the back tees markers somewhere around the front to mid part of the back tees then that would mean she probably played the course at around 6900 because the back tees are now listed at 6999yds. (I had breakfast with Mr Brewer down there about a month ago and I had the card in my hand and told him; "Gordon, I just know I can find you one more yard out there", but he said; "That just happened to be the way it came in.").

Annka Sorenatam, you really are incredible. Let her into the Curmp Cup!! She might win it and I swear I really will offer to room with her once a get a close look at her!  

Oh, that's right I don't even play in it anymore but if I did play in it from where she apparently just did I estimate she would've clipped me by about 21 shots!  

I'm not saying that Ryan Moore couldn't shoot 68 or better from the same set of tees, but maybe some of the doubters might now be willing to admit that my hypothetical $100 wager wouldn't be quite so absurd . . .

-Ted

Well, then Wayne, if I roomed with her down there maybe I just wouldn't sleep---that is after I got a good look at her.

Sully:

How do you think she'd stack up against the top 20 Crump players? Personally, I'd say pretty damn well but how does one go about analyzing something like that? Do you think the top 20 players in the Crump could just miss the cut in a men's PGA Tour event by one shot like Annika in Texas last year? Persoanlly I'd think most all the top 20 Crump Cup players probably wouldn't come close to doing that.

Tom, I would agree with this assesment but I asked the question a bit prematurely because after reading the first 4 or 5 posts it seemed most opinions (including yours) were that she would struggle at Pine Valley. After reading all the way through just now I see that was not your position at all so I apologize.

True, there really is no way to analyze it short of her playing in some sort of mid-am level event and I don't see any reason for that to happen.

I would tend to agree with Jamie and go so far as to say if she ever were in the field in the Crump she would be the prohibitive favorite.

Her scoring today and tomorrow really do not matter much at all considering she just yesterday completed a 5 or 8 or whatever stroke victory to capture the second leg of the women's Grand Slam. How would any of us play in a casual round the day after accomplishing something like that? I can't imagine our concentration would be real sharp, so whether it's 69 or 79, she has the physical and most importantly the mental tools to dominate a game which really provides very little competition to her.

I think the comparison (however speculative it might be) is a good one because what can typically be said separates the really good amateurs from the really good tour pros is their short game, and that seems to be a weakness for Annika in the minds of those on this site. I don't think comparing his performance in a Masters or two to her performance in a Colonial Invitational makes much sense either though so why don't we just play imaginary rounds on their behalf and see how they do? Ted Kramer can play for Annika, and who will play for Ryan Moore?

From the middle tees, I wonder how many times she hit driver?

Quote from: TEPaul on June 13, 2005, 03:33:38 PM

Well, then Wayne, if I roomed with her down there maybe I just wouldn't sleep---that is after I got a good look at her.

Sully:

How do you think she'd stack up against the top 20 Crump players? Personally, I'd say pretty damn well but how does one go about analyzing something like that? Do you think the top 20 players in the Crump could just miss the cut in a men's PGA Tour event by one shot like Annika in Texas last year? Persoanlly I'd think most all the top 20 Crump Cup players probably wouldn't come close to doing that.

Tom, I would agree with this assesment but I asked the question a bit prematurely because after reading the first 4 or 5 posts it seemed most opinions (including yours) were that she would struggle at Pine Valley. After reading all the way through just now I see that was not your position at all so I apologize.

True, there really is no way to analyze it short of her playing in some sort of mid-am level event and I don't see any reason for that to happen.

I would tend to agree with Jamie and go so far as to say if she ever were in the field in the Crump she would be the prohibitive favorite.

Her scoring today and tomorrow really do not matter much at all considering she just yesterday completed a 5 or 8 or whatever stroke victory to capture the second leg of the women's Grand Slam. How would any of us play in a casual round the day after accomplishing something like that? I can't imagine our concentration would be real sharp, so whether it's 69 or 79, she has the physical and most importantly the mental tools to dominate a game which really provides very little competition to her.

I think the comparison (however speculative it might be) is a good one because what can typically be said separates the really good amateurs from the really good tour pros is their short game, and that seems to be a weakness for Annika in the minds of those on this site. I don't think comparing his performance in a Masters or two to her performance in a Colonial Invitational makes much sense either though so why don't we just play imaginary rounds on their behalf and see how they do? Ted Kramer can play for Annika, and who will play for Ryan Moore?

I'm ready for make believe at PV anytime . . .

-Ted