[Patrick_Mucci]

Casey,

That's a heroic carry, not a sporty carry.
And, the slope of the fairway makes it a very heroic carry.

TEPaul,

What you overlooked is how the wind magnifies the "sporty" carry on the drive and approach shot.

[ForkaB]

"Tommy
Would the hedge at the 1st at CPC qualify for guys like you and TEP for whom the phrase "worm burner" is NOT an exaggeration?"

Rich:

what hedge on the first at CPC? The time you played with me--once I think--if I was hitting the ball low it was only because, like Tiger, I was obviously "controlling my trajectory" for some reason. There was a time a few years ago my trajectory started acting like it was some kind of "independent thinker" but I slapped it in and around the head a couple of times and now it appears to know that I am in TOTAL CONTROL!

Tommy

How soon you forget.......

We played together twice and then you followed me around for a third time, so impressed were you by my aerial game.

I never should have introduced you to fine wine........

[Brian_Gracely]

Tommy,

I'm not sure if this is what you're looking for, but I think the 2nd shot at Prestwick #3 fits the model you're discussing.  Here's a few  pictures (since you asked for those too).

For those that haven't played there, your drive is going to (most likely) end up in this area.  I've never played it with a really strong wind at my back, so I'm not sure if anyone every tries to drive it over the Cardinal Bunker.


Here's a view of the 2nd shot.. The flag is to the right (red).  A direct line brings the Burn on the right into play.  



The great land in the approach area for #3.  Playing a "safe" approach to this area doesn't guarantee an easy approach as you'll have no idea what the lie will be.



So if this isn't what Tommy was looking for, I don't feel too bad as I think any day when you can see pictures of Prestwick is a good day.  I can't figure out why nobody builds a hole like #3 at Prestwick anymore, but I suspect that it's because (a) it's a Par5 less than 500yds, (b) it has a target landing area for the drive, (c) it has unique and unusual bunkering, (d) few people could shape the approach to look anything like this land. Oh well, it's still a great hole.

[TEPaul]

"TEPaul,
What you overlooked is how the wind magnifies the "sporty" carry on the drive and approach shot."

Patrick:

And how, pray tell, would you know I overlooked that?

[Gary_Nelson]

If these carries are so much fun, can they be fabricated artificially and still be as good as the examples provided thus far?  Are there examples of these in modern course construction that are worth emulating?

[Patrick_Mucci]

"TEPaul,
What you overlooked is how the wind magnifies the "sporty" carry on the drive and approach shot."

Patrick:

And how, pray tell, would you know I overlooked that?

Because, when we were standing beneath the huge flag pole on the 18th hole at NGLA you looked up and asked me,
"what makes that flag go in different directions ?"

I knew then that you had little or no understanding with respect to the element of ......... WIND.[/color]

[TEPaul]

"Because, when we were standing beneath the huge flag pole on the 18th hole at NGLA you looked up and asked me,
"what makes that flag go in different directions ?"

You know, I remember that quite well, actually. But, as per usual, you're incapable of listening or getting anything right. It was well after midnight and I didn't ask you what makes the flag go in different directions I asked you what was making the flagpole go in different directions!

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Tom Paul says Tomato,
Pat Mucci says Toma-toe.........

File these series of posts under the term Sportsman's Vegatables.....

[Patrick_Mucci]

TEPaul,

I clearly recall the exact moment.

And, that's not what you said,

You said, "What makes those flag POLES go in different directions.

It was after that statement that I suggested that you lay off the Southsiders for the rest of the evening.

[Mark Brown]

If you play agressively cape holes like the 5th at Mid-Ocean present a similar situation, although they're really heroic designs. If you don't hit a strong drive Hells-Half-Acre does also, as well as the cross-bunker on the long five-par at Baltusrol. Belfair-West has a par-five with a 2nd shot over water that's reachable by most players if they play the right tees (which seems to be more the exception than the rule.

Ross and Mackenzie's deception bunkers (20 or 30 yards short of the green) can produce a similar challenge.

Secession presents some pretty good carries, like the first hole which creates double pressure. I think on newer courses it's usually over water and there's often some type of safe route or bail-out area however. Although Fazio has one on a driveable par4 at World Woods - Pine Barrens and Belfair -East on the drive over water on the short par-four 5th hole. The tee shot at Cuscowilla No. 10 requires a good carry off the tee, no. 10 at Wolf Run (par-five), and both alternate routes off the tee at Old Memorial - a par-five on back nine.

[James Bennett]

was Todd Hamilton's play to the 72nd green at last year's British Open an example of the 'sportsman's carry'.  My understanding was that he endeavoured to take enough club to clear the bunker well short, then chase off that bunker's slope towards the green.  He chose the club specifically to play this shot from the lie and increase his chance at finishing near the green whilst avoiding more difficult areas.  It didn't quite come off (in that he stopped well short of the green) but he then played that memorable 'rescue club' shot.

Or is this just an example of playing 'the ground game'?

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