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Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Fall line vs. fault line by Johnny Miller
« Reply #25 on: January 02, 2005, 12:47:49 PM »
Michael Whitaker,

You see, some of my old boss rubbed-off on me.  And as a result, you probably will remember the point of the thread a bit better.  I do envy guys like Papazian, Moriarty, Goodale (who can't spell worth a lick) and several others on this site who write so well, poetically, and, seemingly, without effort.  But thank God that we are communicating in writing and not by voice!

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Fall line vs. fault line by Johnny Miller
« Reply #26 on: January 02, 2005, 12:50:50 PM »
Hang on boys.  Merlot is invaluable when discussing the wines of Bordeaux.  It's time you lot gave up that Bordeaux wanna be stuff you drink out there.  Broaden your horizons and embrace the French for one of the few good items they produce.

PS  Johnny is alright.  Which other Yank is in his class for commentary?  At least we get an honest opinion from the man.

Ciao

Sean

New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

S. Huffstutler

Re:Fall line vs. fault line by Johnny Miller
« Reply #27 on: January 02, 2005, 02:57:11 PM »
Yeah and I just love hearing about "the GRAIN on the FAULT/FALL LINE caused the ball to TRICKLE...." over and over and over. He's awful.


steve

ForkaB

Re:Fall line vs. fault line by Johnny Miller
« Reply #28 on: January 02, 2005, 04:32:33 PM »
In this matter I defer to Gib, who, being not only Californian but also Armenian and a long time member of Olympic, knows his fault lines from his fall lines.  It was on the 18th of the Lake course that he imparted to me the wisdom of finding the "fall line" after sinking a 90 degree slider for his 3.  Being the perfect student that I am, I followed him into the hole, for a 4, alas. :'(  I wonder if he would have given me the tip if the putt had been for a 3...... ???

In essence, Mike Young is right.  A "fall line" is the line on which a golf ball falls when all that impels it is gravity.  The key of lag putting downhill on a fast green is to find the point on the green where when the ball almost stops, it is thereafter destined to fall directly down the fall line into the hole.

Of course, on complex greens (particularly those with "punchbowl" features), there may be more than one fall line for certain putts.........

TEPaul

Re:Fall line vs. fault line by Johnny Miller
« Reply #29 on: January 03, 2005, 07:21:16 AM »
"Broaden your horizons and embrace the French for one of the few good items they produce."

Sean;

Look pal, let's not get carried away here! I'll drink some French wine now and again but does that mean I'm actually embracing the French too? If so, I'm going back to getting high on Diet Coke and chewing gum!

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Fall line vs. fault line by Johnny Miller
« Reply #30 on: January 03, 2005, 07:30:16 AM »
Tom

Surely there is enough good will in this world that a hug or two can be spared for the French.  It isn't as if I'm asking you to buy French chewing gum or soda.  Give the Frogs a break, even if they don't deserve it.  

Ciao

Sean
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Fall line vs. fault line by Johnny Miller
« Reply #31 on: January 03, 2005, 10:24:56 AM »
Adam,
You are correct .  I meant to say the point in the arc where the ball begins to come back off of the slope.  
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Fall line vs. fault line by Johnny Miller
« Reply #32 on: January 03, 2005, 10:38:10 AM »
Yikes, Dave - sounds like you and Lou are slipping into relativism. :)

No real harm done by Johnny Miller, at least in this instance. I do hate when he advocates softening slopes to accomodate modern greenspeeds, though.

Johnny isn't as sharp as he thinks he is, but, heck, Slag's probably the only person I know that actually underestimates his own intelligence.

P.S. Hope St. Peter doesn't quiz us on our wine knowledge when confronted at the pearly gates - if so, what little chance I have goes right out the window. :)
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Fall line vs. fault line by Johnny Miller
« Reply #33 on: January 03, 2005, 12:27:21 PM »
George

Don't worry.  Just as there is plenty of good will in the world to include the French, there is loads of room in heaven for heathens.

Ciao

Sean
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

tlavin

Re:Fall line vs. fault line by Johnny Miller
« Reply #34 on: January 03, 2005, 04:39:21 PM »
I think Miller is the Howard Cosell of golf coverage.  He is successful because he is controversial.  As opposed to Cosell, he is able to trade on a spectacular, if briefly spectacular, golfing career.  My main problem with Miller is that he says whatever comes into his head and he's usually thinking about himself.  A self-absorbed gasbag, IMHO, but a very successful one...
« Last Edit: January 03, 2005, 04:40:11 PM by tlavin »

DMoriarty

Re:Fall line vs. fault line by Johnny Miller
« Reply #35 on: January 03, 2005, 05:38:10 PM »
Lou is 100% right.  The difference between these two terms is irrelevent in this context.  No less than Shakespeare changed the meaning of, and even flat out made up, words.  Language is just a way to communicate concepts.  The concept is clear whether he calls it a fall line, a fault line or simply a ridge.  Who cares what he calls it, as long as the meaning gets through?

Except the meaning does not get through.   Whether he means "fall line" or "fault line," I still dont understand what the heck he is talking about.   What I call a "fall line" in golf and skiing doesnt necessarily have anything to do with a precipice or or a ball running away from a slope and toward a hole.  

And what is with this wishy-washy language is a fluid medium bit?   You'll soon be joining our friend Lou with the New World PC'ers.  

TEPaul

Re:Fall line vs. fault line by Johnny Miller
« Reply #36 on: January 03, 2005, 07:02:19 PM »
David:

I'm pretty damn sure I know exactly what Miller was trying to say when he mentioned "fault line" on a green (and I haven't even read the article). I've heard Miller mention a "fall line" on greens before in telecasts and what he meant was that line along the green from which putts break off or away from. In that article he probably just called it a "fault line" because Johnny really isn't any great Alister Cooke with his use of words, you know?

Matter of fact, I've only seen Miller one time in person and this very subject just happened to come up. I was standing out at the 13th green at Aronomink about two days before the Senior PGA Championship. The course was really wet, completely soaked actually, so it surprised me to see this guy rush up in a cart (since few carts were allowed on the course). Miller jumped out, rushed over to the green, pulled out a little notebook and started sketching and note taking. At first I didn't even recognize him because he was much bigger and taller than I though Miller was but since we were about the only people out there I went over and asked him what he was doing. He said he was basically taking notes on the contours of the greens and doing a basic sketch of the contours so he could report it better in play during the tournament.

We talked briefly about what an interesting green it was and he said he certainly thought so and he was really impressed with how interesting most of the Aronomink greens were. Then he said he particularly thought that "fall line" that sort of curved through the middle of the green would have a significant influence on approaches, recoveries and putts.

I should've said; "Do you mean "fault line" you dumb clod?" He probably would've said; "Fall line, fault line, what's the difference?" At which point I should have exploded and said;
"Look you big blond bozo, maybe you could swing a golf club OK once but if you're going to be a decent national golf commentator, I, for one, have a bunch of fellow travelers on GOLFCLUBATLAS.com who are going to be driven crazy by this kind of lingusitic imprecision and one in particular in California who a few years from now will likely stay up nights trying to figure out whether you're talking about a ski-slope, a golf green or some point at which a catoclysmic earth-shattering catastrophe might take place in Southern California, so get this "fall line" or "fault line" thing decided on and completely defined to my satisfaction right here and now!"

Unfortunately, before I could tell him all that he was back in his cart and out of there as fast as he came without even as much as a "by your leave" to me!
« Last Edit: January 03, 2005, 07:06:01 PM by TEPaul »

Kevin_Reilly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Fall line vs. fault line by Johnny Miller
« Reply #37 on: January 03, 2005, 07:18:39 PM »
I've heard Miller mention a "fall line" on greens before in telecasts and what he meant was that line along the green from which putts break off or away from. In that article he probably just called it a "fault line" because Johnny really isn't any great Alister Cooke with his use of words, you know?

Anyone sorry enough to have read his "book" from last year would probably agree with you.  I've never read a book with more typos/misstatements.  For example, he raves about the short par 3 #8 at Pebble Beach.
"GOLF COURSES SHOULD BE ENJOYED RATHER THAN RATED" - Tom Watson

TEPaul

Re:Fall line vs. fault line by Johnny Miller
« Reply #38 on: January 04, 2005, 01:59:03 PM »
Kevin:

I think a good deal of Americans really like commentators like Miller who sometimes fracture the English/American language. It must make them feel comfortable!  

;)

Rob_Waldron

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Fall line vs. fault line by Johnny Miller
« Reply #39 on: January 04, 2005, 03:50:27 PM »
I thought the "fault line" was a tennis term and tennis certainly has no place in this discussion group!

Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Fall line vs. fault line by Johnny Miller
« Reply #40 on: January 04, 2005, 06:11:43 PM »
This is the man who routinely tells his audience that putts "hook" and "slice" so in a contest of who is the idiot my vote goes along with Steve's. It ain't you.

Philip --

I guess you haven't seen Johnny Miller putt in a couple of decades, eh? If you had, you wouldn't doubt that putts can hook and slice.

---

My guess is: He meant "fall line" -- as in: The particular line (straight or curved) water would trace if you poured it onto a high spot on a green; a.k.a. the path of least resistance.

But I'm with Professor Moriarty -- and unalterably, eternally opposed to those who will say, of sloppy language: "Who cares? We all know what he meant."

No, we don't!
"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016