Does Shadow Creek have a no tipping policy.....because I would think it would be tough to get out of that place with out dropping another hundred at least between the caddie, shoe guy and other ancilliary suck pots...

Rich:

I wasn't sensitive at all.  I honestly had no idea what you meant by your post - my reply was geared to Tommy and other readers, not to you.  Tommy asked what others paid there, I answered about myself.

My you surely are grumpy this evening (where you live).  I had no idea baseball was that important to you.

Or are you still mad that Cypress isn't actually less than 6500 yards?

 

John K. - rest assured I too paid WAY more in other things than I would have just for the golf at Shadow.  My wife and I dined at LeCirque... good lord was it great... good lord was it expensive... but as a great man said, one cannot put a price tag on a good time... even if I often do.  Re tipping, I really don't remember... Tommy might.  I do remember paying the caddie a good deal of dough.

 

the DOG at Shadow Creek is one of the GREAT DOG's in Golf. A real classy guy

Absolute concurrence there.  Great guy without a doubt.  Down to earth in a sea of things telling him not to be, if that makes any sense.

TH

We had one caddy between the three of us, and of course, I had a cart because there was no way I was going to walk due to weight and weather. About 110 deg. if I remember right, but the course was in excellent shape and I wouldn't changed the time of year for a minute! We had a great time the night before while sitting and watching the pirate ship get blown out of the water at least a few times--or was it the alcohol?

Can't remember how much we tipped, but it was Armenian generous if you get my meaning.  Gib knows how to tip. He's awesome at it because you see the guys walk away with a smile on their face!

He and I rode around together the entire front nine and I really enjoyed his company.

The back nine he had excuse himself and go in and do some DOG stuff, but then wanted to buy us lunch afterwards. Gib had to get back, so we all passed, and as he escourted us out to the limo, practically sending us off like we were family members leaving Thanksgiving dinner, he told us not to hesitate in ever wanting to come back. Matter of fact, he told me that if I wanted to come back later in the day when it cooled down, I could!

John, Nothing is free in Vegas, remember that.  Whether it be what we paid for the rooms, tipping the staff, gambling at the tables, spending it in their fine restaurants, etc. MGM has more then paid for Shadow Creek.  The high green fee is a neccessity to keep up the mystique of it being the predominant golf course in Las Vegas. It is the golf course that is looked upon and envyed by all others in that area. I suspect it always will be, and thats what makes Shadow Creek GREAT in that regard.

JK - remember the audience here, most of whom ARE raters.  So of course you haven't heard on here from many, or any, who have paid full freight at Shadow Creek.  It is damn expensive, so I'm guessing they get very little full-paying play.  But who knows.

As for caddie, well... Tommy's right, it is hot most of the time... I went in November though and weather was great and we had three of us and two caddies.  They drove carts, we walked for the most part.  I didn't feel like that added or detracted to the experience, really - it was just their rules, that's how it went.  I don't think walking with a solo caddie there would have added much.  But you're right.. if I am paying $500, I might want that.

TH

OK... the experience is great, the DOG is nice, the caddies are well-tipped.

How about the golf?  Reading this thread I get the feeling Shadow Creek is a pedestrian golf course with little excitement or strategy.  I just don't want to believe that it's true.  

Sure there is some eye-candy (ie. waterfalls, creek, pond).  Other than adding to the construction costs... what's the harm?  

Does this course really suck?  Or are you trying to say that the Shadow Creek architecture is worse than Rustic Canyon and the other group of favorites on this forum?

Are the greens flat and boring?
Are the bunkers in the wrong place?
Are the doglegs too doggie?

What's wrong with Shadow Creek to earn the bad rap?

How is it different from Pebble Beach, where people get paired with strangers all the time?

How is it different from Pebble Beach, where people get paired with strangers all the time?

FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR less play.

TH

Gary -

Put me in Huck's corner as someone that liked the course a lot. I paid to play, was comped as a gambler, and played as a rater and enjoyed each and every round. Is it the most difficult course in the world? No. Is the experience right up at the top of the charts? Yes.

Jim: WHEW!  I was hoping someone would chime in here who paid.  Sounds like you covered all parts of the spectrum in that regard.  

And seeing your post reminds me.. we might have a little thing to discuss come early January... LONG way to go, for sure, but here's hoping it happens.

Tommy Trojan Huckaby

Gary, I know you didn't ask me, but I'm trying to kill time and I can't resist.

Was it strategic?
hell yes.  lots of strategic choices to be made.

Was the architecture good?
absolutely.  But of course I consider part of the "architecture" the amazing engineering achievement that they pulled off there.  But outside of that, it is well routed, the holes are well-balanced, it does have all the hallmarks of good architecture that most consider important.  CAVEAT - expect Tommy to gag and come back with some serious bile disagreeing with this.  

Was there anything holding it back from being as good as a course like Pasatiempo?
well, since damn near every ranking in existence has it above Pasatiempo, I think that's a good enough answer.  Now of course it's mind-boggling to think what MacKenzie could have done with a blank slate of land and an unlimited budget, but sadly he never got that chance.  Fazio did, for better or for worse, and the result is great.

It doesn't bother me that it's a parkland course in a desert.  What does bother me is the suggestion that Fazio's unlimited budget resulted in a boring layout.
It didn't.  Don't let Tommy fool you.  But god dammit how did I get sucked into this again?
 

Huck -

I got sucked in too, so at least you have a wing man .