[JohnV]

I was going to throw my name into the hat, but John V. has clearly lapped the field. He's right, pulling those pins out and replacing them is a huge time killer. I don't see a problem though, just add the penalty strokes and keep movin'.

The reason I played so fast that day was that I got out to Ghost Creek at 5:20 PM, sunset was 7PM and a shotgun start tournament had just ended so I had it to myself.  Not pulling the flag helped on the first putts as I didn't have to walk up to the hole and back to do it and I did hole a couple of them.  As I recall I shot 75 (not counting those penalty strokes).

[JohnV]

Perfectly said.  And the bottom line remains this:  if you have an hour to be home, and you want to get in 9 quick holes, you do not walk.  Period.  End of story.

TH

Or you get your butt in gear and play seven or eight walking and feel much more alive when you finish.

[Scott_Burroughs]

Maybe more events should be scheduled in the Pinehurst area.... ....I'd have at least some chance of attending....

And I normally walk my home course in 2:10-2:15 with no waiting.  Those longish walks in the first 4 holes keep me from 2 hours flat.  The back nine is 1 hour easy.  Always leave the flags in.

Can't count the number of times people accidentally have been talking during my shot as I "John Daly'd" on them.

Too bad I'm actually a pretty slow walker speed-wise.  Short, weak legs for my height.

[Craig Van Egmond]

John, Evan,

     Another one of the Mid Pines fivesome was Tim Weiman, I can't remember the fifth though.

[THuckaby2]

Perfectly said.  And the bottom line remains this:  if you have an hour to be home, and you want to get in 9 quick holes, you do not walk.  Period.  End of story.

TH

Or you get your butt in gear and play seven or eight walking and feel much more alive when you finish.

That's a good thought as well.  But especially when 7 or 8 leaves you far from the clubhouse, well... I'll take maximum holes played over feeling more alive.  That's even more important when getting home late means death, also.  

[Evan Fleisher]

You guys have a good memory...it was me, John, Craig, Tim, and I believe "the Mayor".

Correct?

[Rick Shefchik]

I've seen players play slower in carts. It happens all the time in front of me.

Moe and Larry share a cart, drive to Moe's ball, Moe gets out, dawdles choosing a club, checks the wind, takes his practice swings (usually three, two if I'm lucky), finally hits his shot, cleans his club, replaces his divot (again, if I'm lucky), puts his club in the bag and gets back into the cart.

All this time, Larry has been sitting in the cart, five feet away, pondering the meaning of life or what he's going to have for lunch at the turn. They drive twenty yards to Larry's ball, and Moe waits for Larry to go through the same routine.

If I could have one wish granted per round, it would usually be for Moe and Larry to split up and walk -- or drive -- to their ball while the other guy is playing his shot.

Now that would save 45 minutes to an hour.

[JohnV]

I'm one of the few people at my club that walks and I usually end up playing with 3 guys in carts every weekend.  Fortunately I'm also the longest hitter so I can keep up with them and even get ahead of them most times.  I can see that if the walker was the shortest hitter he would be scrambling to keep up though.

Today I was out measuring a course and had to wait while one group played.  Moe hit and then put his club away, got back in the cart and they drove 8 yards to Larry's ball (to the side, not in front of Moe).  He got out, selected a club and hit (eventually).  Tell me anyone can't walk faster than two guys playing like that.

[THuckaby2]

Rick - oh hell yes, that is a familiar lament, happens all the time.  Slow or unthinking players can and do often play even slower out of a cart, for just the reasons you state.  And it can get even worse when they get too enamored with the GPS readings, when such are available!

My point is more that just logically golf does go faster in a cart, because the point to point distance is covered more quickly.  Of course there are exceptions to the blanket statement "golf goes faster out of a cart."  Just put you and me in a cart, allowing us off the paths, and Mike Golden and John V. walking (two of the fastest players I know), with no one in front of us, and well... we'll likely ditch the other two by the 2nd tee, and have time for several beers before Mike and John join us at the 19th.

Disagree?

TH  

[Dan Kelly]

I've seen players play slower in carts. It happens all the time in front of me.

Moe and Larry share a cart, drive to Moe's ball, Moe gets out, dawdles choosing a club, checks the wind, takes his practice swings (usually three, two if I'm lucky), finally hits his shot, cleans his club, replaces his divot (again, if I'm lucky), puts his club in the bag and gets back into the cart.

All this time, Larry has been sitting in the cart, five feet away, pondering the meaning of life or what he's going to have for lunch at the turn. They drive twenty yards to Larry's ball, and Moe waits for Larry to go through the same routine.

Exactly. Of course, I've often been there with you, thinking nasty thoughts about the Stooges ahead -- so I know *exactly* whereof you speak.

You forgot a couple of things, though:

Gotta check that GPS!

And then, of course, you've gotta leave the cart in the wrong spot, hole after hole after hole.

AUUUUUUUUUUGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

P.S. I don't think Larry is pondering either the meaning of life or what he'll have for lunch. He's wondering when the cart girl is coming 'round again -- and idly speculating about whether she's of legal age.

[THuckaby2]

You forgot a couple of things, though:

Gotta check that GPS!

Great minds, Dan.  

TH

[Rick Shefchik]

Tom --

No, I don't disagree. Especially considering that I forgot about Moe and Larry's cell phones in my previous post.

I don't own one, and I'm sure you don't take calls on the course. We'd smoke 'em.

[THuckaby2]

Rick - right on bruthah.  And yes, though I do own a cell-phone, I have yet to take it with me on the golf course.

TH

[Brent Hutto]

I'm one of the few people at my club that walks and I usually end up playing with 3 guys in carts every weekend.  Fortunately I'm also the longest hitter so I can keep up with them and even get ahead of them most times.  I can see that if the walker was the shortest hitter he would be scrambling to keep up though.

I'm always the walker and almost always the shortest hitter. If the guys I'm playing with will forget about honors and hit when they get to the ball I don't have to scramble at all. Keeping up with typical cart-golfers is a casual strolling pace at best if they just hit their second shots while I'm walking.

I just hate it when they drive the cart up the fairway, park by their ball which is two yards past mine and then wait for me to catch up as though I'm holding them back. So I hustle along, get to my ball, hit it and then stand there cooling my heels while they get out of the cart and start rummaging around for the club they want to use.

Just hit the darned ball, I'll be there by the time you finish your three practice swings. Several times over the years I've been asked by guys in a cart some variation on "How can you be waiting on us for every shot when you're walking and we're in the cart?" to which I've yet to give an honest reply. They've got the driving part down pat they just need to figure out what to do when they get there.

[Mike_Golden]

Tom,

I disagree about your timing, not about the fact that two in a cart will finish well ahead of two walking.  Here's the basis for the disagreement:

When I was a member at San Jose CC 5 or 6 years ago I played almost all of my golf at day break, by myself (that's how much I disliked most of the members).  Most of the time I started out behind 2 or 3 regulars who played cart ball, one in a cart, and who would always play in under 2 hours.  I normally kept up with them for the 1st 7 holes and then they would pull away after that, with me finishing in about 2 hours 15 minutes.  My guess was that I could have kept pace if both were in the same cart.  And, if you remember, the 1st 7 holes at SJCC are pretty hilly and quirky.

[JohnV]

Mike, it must be something about San Jose Country Club that makes its members fast walkers.  For those who don't know, my parents were members there in the 1970s and I was still young enough to play on their membership.

[Don_Mahaffey]

One of my all favorite rounds was with a good friend at Turnberry in June, 2000. Fist twosome off in the morning, raining, blowing about 30, never even seen the course before, finished in 2:30 and never, ever rushed. Those caddies know how to keep things moving.

[Scott_Burroughs]

I'm one of the few people at my club that walks and I usually end up playing with 3 guys in carts every weekend.  Fortunately I'm also the longest hitter so I can keep up with them and even get ahead of them most times.  I can see that if the walker was the shortest hitter he would be scrambling to keep up though.

That's usually the case with me, too.  On iron tee-shot holes (my course has 3 of them for me that are non-par 3's), that I'll more often be shortest, but that's just a shorter walk to the ball.  Also, they (the cartballers) have to wait for the group ahead to finish anyways, so the more smoothly paced walking gives the group ahead time to finish out/move out of range and me time to get "catch up".

Most of the time, I beat the cartballers to the next tee (on the vast majority of holes with short distances).

Also, as I play the back tees during the warm months (about 8 months per year), I hit first, then go up to the further up tees to wait for them to hit, and so I'm ready to go when the last person hits.

[Marc Haring]

Once shot a 68 in 1:35 dead. It was late evening, 8.30 and I thought I had time for a quick nine before it got too dark. Had no time to think about my shots, hence the 68.
One of the most enjoyable rounds of my life.

[JakaB]

Shivas,

In defense of the fast play kings....the Barona outing made the fatal mistake of sending me and Lou out first.....despite the fact we don't throw our clubs or hissy fits...we were quite slow.....but I still blame the fat guy in the cart who was foisted upon us for some still unknown reason..

[Mark Brown]

I loathe slow play, but what is the point of fast play. Is it a game in itself  -- fast play for the sake of fast play. Is that  enjoy able? You can't possibly take in the strategy and beauty of the course or score as well (?)

[JakaB]

So....how much time does an additional 1000 yds add to a round....I have seen the same group on >6 handicaps (negative scale for the uninformed) take an hour longer on the 7300 tees than from the 6300.....It is difficult for me to put my finger on why the championship tees take just that much longer when as many balls are lost and found as from the front.....a K is worth about 6 shots in the real world...not the bizarro world of course rating where it is worth about 1.8...but is 6 shots a person really worth an hour of time...

[Michael Moore]

I play golf at very near the speed of light.

Gotta use the 90 compression balls, they kind of "dense up" after a few holes.

The tunnel vision thing really helps my concentration.

My rangefiner hardly works at all!

After the round I like to enjoy a beverage with my pals who have aged ten years while I was playing.

[THuckaby2]

Tom,

I disagree about your timing, not about the fact that two in a cart will finish well ahead of two walking.  Here's the basis for the disagreement:

When I was a member at San Jose CC 5 or 6 years ago I played almost all of my golf at day break, by myself (that's how much I disliked most of the members).  Most of the time I started out behind 2 or 3 regulars who played cart ball, one in a cart, and who would always play in under 2 hours.  I normally kept up with them for the 1st 7 holes and then they would pull away after that, with me finishing in about 2 hours 15 minutes.  My guess was that I could have kept pace if both were in the same cart.  And, if you remember, the 1st 7 holes at SJCC are pretty hilly and quirky.

Me and anyone I choose in a cart, you and JV walking.  We start at the same time.  Pick a course, any course, so long as we can don't have to stay on the paths.  I'll bet you anything you like we finish ahead of you with enough time for me to finish 3 beers, languidly sipping each.

Sure there are exceptions to this.  Slow non-thinking cartballers won't stay ahead of conscientious walkers, as you proved at SJCC.  But make the players equal, and the guys in the carts go faster, because no matter how fast you walk, you can't keep up with the cart point to point.

And that is all I was trying to say.

Now shivas, as for tall tales about playing quickly, hell my pace is always determined by two things:

a) the people in front of me and with me;
b) how fast I feel like going.

At Barona, we waited on every shot, remember?  I also didn't care.  It was too fun to rush through.

TH

[Brian_Gracely]

...but is 6 shots a person really worth an hour of time...?

Well, if we did some first-grade math, we'd get something like this:

4hrs is 240 mins / 18 holes is ~ 13.5mins per hole (for a foursome)

1000yds is like 2.5 holes (or 2 Par4 at Whistling Straits), so 2.5 * 13.5 = 33.75mins

So there's at least half of your 1hr.  Then consider that few of the 7300yd courses are build with the same tee-to-green proximity as a 6300yd course and you've got at least 2 extra 3-5 minute walks to add (assuming we're considering that 1000yds is like 2 holes).  So now you're at ~45 mins.  

Throw in a hot-dog and a trip to the can at the turn and you're pretty close to 1hr    And I didn't add any extra time in for the "macho-tax" which comes when a player of a 6300yd course feels the need to muscle-up to every drive on a 7300yd course...and a few of his dribblers end up in the environmental-area off the tee (that needs to be carried) or in the back-yard of the nearby houses.  

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