[John Kavanaugh]

Mathew,

Why don't you get with Flemma on his quickly dying Golfclubatlas ranking thread.  He could use your help with the brackets.

[Brad Tufts]

I admit I've always been a lover of lists....

....and I've been fortunate enough to play many good golf courses.


And #268 is undoubtedly Cedar Glen GC in Saugas, MA....we were on the 9th tee in my only HS match there in 1997 or so....we look back after a noise...and a Toy. Tacoma pickup truck is bouncing down the middle of the third fairway at 40 mph on its way to pick up the rest of the pins.....

In all seriousness, I did stop at 50 on the list...it would probably get pretty ugly after 75 or 100 or so...

[Matthew Hunt]

Here is the latest ratings up to post #90. Entries are now closed. I know there is probably lots of mistakes so can people please point them out.

A couple of questions:

Is Black Wolf Run GC and Wolf Run GC the same club?

Is We-no-pa the same course as We-no-pa Ridge?

Isnt Sandwich another name for Royal St Georges?

Sandly Peter Jans National is not in the top 50 (Its 51st) But I think someone else voted for it so it will rise.

Here it goes:


List up to Post #90

1.St Andrews Old 357pts
2. Royal Dornoch 268
3. Sand Hills 247
4. Pine Valley 214
5. Royal County Down 203
6. Cypess Point 194
7. Pacific Dunes 177
8. Merion 161
9. NGLA 161
10. Shinnecock Hills 125
11. Pebble Beach 121
12. Royal Melbourne(West) 117
13. Ballybunion 117
14. Muirfield 99
15. Pinehurst #2 95
16. Crystal Downs 83
17. North Berwick 57
18.Winged Foot (West)51
19. Prairie Dunes 51
20. Royal Portrush 49
21. Augusta National 48
22.Turnberry (Ailsa) 46
23. Ballyneal 42
24. Woodhall Spa 41
25. Lahinch 39
26. SFGC 36
27. Carnoustie (Championship) 36
28. Kingsley Club 32
29. Sunningdale Old 35
30. Bethpage Black 34
31. Lawsonia Links 33
32.Royal St Georges 33
33. Machrihanish 32
34. Oakmont 30
35. Whistling Straits 24
36. Hoylake 24
37.  Kingston Heath 23
38. Friars Head 22
39. Teeth  of Dog 22
40. The Ocean Course 22
41. Garden City GC 21
42. The Golf Club 19
43. Royal Birkdale 18
44. Rolling green 18
45. Yale 18
46. Rye 18
47. Victoria National 18
48. Royal Cinque Ports 18
49.  Pasatiempo 17
50. Waterville 16
51. Peter Jans National Golf Club 15
52. Nanea 15
53. Ganton 15
54. Seminole  15
55. TPC at Sawgrass 15
56. Tobacco Road 13
57.  Barnbougle Dunes 13
58. Harbour Town GL (Hilton Head Island, SC) 12
59. Dancing Rabbit - Azaleas (Choctaw, MS) 12
60. Wolf Run GC 12
61. Bandon Trails 11
62. High Pointe 10
63. Kingsbarns 10
64. Addington 10
65. Doonbeg 10
66. Cape Kidnappers 10
65. St. George's (Toronto) 10
66. Black Wolf Run GC 10
67. Capstone Club 10
68. Shoreacres 10
69. The European Club 9
70. Hazeltine 9
71. Myopia Hunt 9
72. Cascades 9
73. Cobblestone (Acworth, GA) 9
74. Tobacco Road 8
75. Maidstone 8
76. Mayacama 8
77.  Riviera 8
78. Sebonack 8
79. Woodlands 8
80. Pennard 8
81. GreyWalls 8
82. St Edonoc 8
83. Annbriar (Waterloo, IL) 8
84. Banff Springs 8
85. Old Elm 7
86. Alwoodley 7
87. New South Wales 7
88. Highlands (Cape Breton) 7
89. Cruden Bay 7
90. Dancing Rabbit – Oaks 7
91. Sandwich 7
92. Preswick 7
93. West Sussex 7
94. Indian Creek 7
95. Metropolitan, Vic 7
96. Lookout Mountain GC 7
97. Point O'Woods GC 7
98. Wild Horse 6
99. French Lick 6
100. New South Wales 6
101. Walton Heath 6
102. Berkshire Red 6
103.  Kinloch 6
104 Arcadia Bluffs 6
105. Shaker Run (Lebanon, OH) 6
106. Paa-Ko Ridge GC 6
107. Shoreacres 5
108.Winged Foot(East)5
109. Oakland Hills South 5
110. Royal Lytham 5
111.  Portmarnock 5
112. Hunstanton 5
113. Woking 5
114. RTJ Capitol Hill Links (Auburn, AL) 5
115. Pennard 5
116. Fishers Island 5
117. Burnham and Berrow 5
118. Rustic Canyon 5
119. Franklin Hills 5
120. Black Mesa GC (Espanola, NM) 5
121. BCC Five Farms 4
122. Royal West Norfolk 4
123. Fisher's Island 4
124. Camargo 4
125. WWPB 4
126. Kapalua Plantation 4
127. Swinley Forest 3
128. Dunes Club 3
129. Crail 3
130. University Ridge (Madison, WI)3
131 Nob North (Cohutta, GA)3
132. Apache Stronghold 3
133. Olympic 3
134. Peeping Rock 3
135. Royal Adelaide 3
136. Olympic Club Lake
137. Palmetto 3
138. Erin Hills 3
139. New Zealand GC 2
140. Congressional 2
141.K Club 2
142. The Country Club 2
143. Royal Melbourne (East) 2
144. Spencer T Olin (Alton, IL) 2
145. Long Cove GC (Hilton Head Island, SC) 2
146. Newport National 2
147. Kauri Cliffs 2
148. Troon 2
149. Indian Creek 2  
150. Kittansett 1
151. Royal Adelaide 1
152. Valderama 1
153. Roses Point 1
154. Crooked Stick GC (Carmel, IN) 1
155. The Frog (Villa Rica, GA) 1
156. Aiken CC (Highland) 1
157. Kilkeel 1
158. Winchester GC 1
159. Boston Golf Club 1
160. Royal St. Kitts 1
161. Wolf Point Club 1
162. We-Ko-Pa 1
163.  Sutton Bay 1
164. Wanamoisett GC 1
165. Berkshire Blue 1
166. Silloth on Solway 1
167. Canterbury 1
168. Tralee 1
169. Itasca CC 1

[Andy Troeger]

Matthew,
Blackwolf Run and Wolf Run are different courses, and BWR actually has two courses (River and Meadow Valleys).

BWR River and Wolf Run are both profiled in Courses By Country.

[John Kirk]

Seminole and Peter Jans tied with 15 points.

[tlavin]

We need the Internet equivalent of euthanasia for this thread.  Kill it before it suffers from any more analysis.  It is surely one of the worst lists ever developed.

[Matthew Hunt]

I have Finished the list with the Old course running away at No.1! Like all lists it is Opinion not fact and it is disigned for Disscusion.

Please point out any spelling mistakes or cources listed twice ect.

Note Number after 100 not right

1.St Andrews Old 400pts
2. Royal Dornoch 286
3. Sand Hills 260
4. Royal County Down 240
5. Cypess Point 237
7. Pacific Dunes 225
6. Pine Valley 224
7. NGLA 201
9. Merion 176
10. Pebble Beach 142
11. Ballybunion 140
12. Shinnecock Hills 129
13. Royal Melbourne(West) 127
14. Muirfield 106.
15.Cystal Downs 105
16. Pinehurst #2 95
17. North Berwick 75
18. Royal Portrush 65
19. Prairie Dunes 65
20. Ballyneal 57
21.Winged Foot (West)51
22. Augusta National 51
23.  Pasatiempo 49
24.Turnberry (Ailsa) 48
25. Lahinch 47
23. Bethpage Black 43
24. Kingsley Club 41
25. SFGC 41
26. Woodhall Spa 41
27. Bandon Dunes 41
28. Olympic Club Lake 39
29. Whistling Straits(Straits) 39
30. Lawsonia Links 37
31. Carnoustie (Championship) 36
32. Sunningdale Old 35
33. Hoylake 33
34. Yale 33
35.Royal St Georges 33
36.  Kingston Heath 32
37. Machrihanish 32
38. Oakmont 30
39. Kapalua Plantation 24
40. Siminole  24
41. The Ocean Course 24
42. Friars Head 22
43. Teeth  of Dog 22
44. GreyWalls 21
45. Garden City GC 21
46. Preswick 20
47. Waterville 20
48. Bandon Trails 20
49. St. George's (Toronto) 20
50. The Golf Club 19
51. Royal Birkdale 18
52. Rolling green 18
53. Rye 18
54. Victoria National 18
55. Royal Cinque Ports 18
56. Newport CC 17
57.  Riviera 17
58. Shoreacres 17
59. Wolf Run GC 17
60.  Spyglass Hill 16
61. New South Wales 16
62. Tobacco Road 15
63. Peter Jans National Golf Club 15
64. Highlands Links 15
65. Nanea 15
66. Ganton 15
67. TPC at Sawgrass 15
68. Myopia Hunt 13
69. Kingsbarns 13
70. Tobacco Road 13
71.  Barnbougle Dunes 13
72. Erin Hills 12
73. Harbour Town GL (Hilton Head Island, SC) 12
74.  Portmarnock 12
75. Arcadia Bluffs 12
76. Dancing Rabbit - Azaleas (Choctaw, MS) 12
77. Rustic Canyon 11
78. LA CC(North) 10
79. High Pointe 10
80. Addington 10
81. Doonbeg 10
82. Cape Kidnappers 10
83. Black Wolf Run GC 10
84. Capstone Club 10
85. Indian Creek 9
86.Fishers Island 9
87. The European Club 9
88. Hazeltine 9
89. Cascades 9
90. Cobblestone (Acworth, GA) 9
91. Stone Eagle 8
93. Maidstone 8
94. Mayacama 8
95. Sebonack 8
96. Woodlands 8
97. Pennard 8
98. St Edonoc 8
99. Annbriar (Waterloo, IL) 8
100. Banff Springs 8
101. Essex County Club 7
102. Valley club 7
103. Swinley Forest 7
104. Pine Needles 7
105. Old Elm 7
106. Alwoodley 7
107. Highlands (Cape Breton) 7
108. Cruden Bay 7
109. Dancing Rabbit – Oaks 7
110. Sandwich 7
111. West Sussex 7
95. Metropolitan, Vic 7
96. Lookout Mountain GC 7
97. Point O'Woods GC 7
100. Bayonet 6
100. Enniscrone 6
 98. Wild Horse 6
99. French Lick 6
100. New South Wales 6
101. Walton Heath 6
102. Berkshire Red 6
103.  Kinloch 6
105. Shaker Run (Lebanon, OH) 6
106. Paa-Ko Ridge GC 6
100. Royal Sydney 5
100. Carne 5
 108.Winged Foot(East)5
109. Oakland Hills South 5
110. Royal Lytham 5
112. Hunstanton 5
113. Woking 5
114. RTJ Capitol Hill Links (Auburn, AL) 5
115. Pennard 5
117. Burnham and Berrow 5
119. Franklin Hills 5
120. Black Mesa GC (Espanola, NM) 5
9  - Whistling Straits(Irish) 4
100. Royal Hague 4
 121. BCC Five Farms 4
122. Royal West Norfolk 4
9.  Barona 4
124. Camargo 4
125. WWPB 4
10. Torrey Pines(South) 3
128. Dunes Club 3
129. Crail 3
130. University Ridge (Madison, WI)3
131 Nob North (Cohutta, GA)3
132. Apache Stronghold 3
134. Peeping Rock 3
135. Royal Adelaide 3
137. Palmetto 3
10.) Milwaukee CC 3
100. County Louth-Baltray 3
100 Monterey Peninsula CC (Shore) 2
139. New Zealand GC 2
140. Congressional 2
141.K Club 2
142. The Country Club 2
143. Royal Melbourne (East) 2
144. Spencer T Olin (Alton, IL) 2
145. Long Cove GC (Hilton Head Island, SC) 2
146. Newport National 2
147. Kauri Cliffs 2
148. Troon 2
11.) Portsalon 2
12.) Criet Island1
150. Kittansett 1
151. Royal Adelaide 1
152. Valderama 1
153. Rosses Point 1
154. Crooked Stick GC (Carmel, IN) 1
155. The Frog (Villa Rica, GA) 1
156. Aiken CC (Highland) 1
157. Kilkeel 1
158. Winchester GC 1
159. Boston Golf Club 1
160. Royal St. Kitts 1
161. Wolf Point Club 1
162. We-Ko-Pa 1
163.  Sutton Bay 1
164. Wanamoisett GC 1
165. Berkshire Blue 1
166. Silloth on Solway 1
167. Canterbury 1
168. Tralee 1
169. Itasca CC 1
111. Tanglewood Park (Championship) 1
111. 12.   Bayonet – Seaside, CA 1
12) Indianwood (Old) 1

[Tony_Muldoon]

Congratulations Matthew, worth waiting for.

[Matthew Hunt]

What does everyone think of the List?

[Matt_Ward]

Terry L:

Could not agree with you more.

[Tom_Doak]

Matthew:

The top 30 or 40 are interesting, especially the inclusion of North Berwick which never makes any of the "world top 100" lists.  (But, the more I play it, the more I like it.)

Everything after about #60 is meaningless, because just one or two votes could place a course that high.  If I had voted for the course I grew up on as the second best in the world, facetiously, it would be tied with Harbour Town and Portmarnock and Erin Hills (!) for 72nd in the world.

[Matthew Hunt]

A bit old, but whats your opinion on this list. I agree with tom that lower down it dets dodgy but I think near the top it has as a good if not better as any magizine lists.

Whats your opinion and how would you improve it?

[Mark Bourgeois]

In my list I've got Crail at 128 and The Dunes Club at 129, but otherwise I agree entirely.

There is a minor typo; the New South Wales rankings should read:
"61. New South Wales -- Sunny Day"
"100. New South Wales -- Rainy, Fogged-In Day"

At least that's how I voted them.

[JESII]

In my list I've got Crail at 128 and The Dunes Club at 129, but otherwise I agree entirely.

There is a minor typo; the New South Wales rankings should read:
"61. New South Wales -- Sunny Day"
"100. New South Wales -- Rainy, Fogged-In Day"

At least that's how I voted them.

You are a sick man...becoming sicker every day...

[Mark Bourgeois]

It's still a long way down to YaBB God -- or would that be Yabb former God

Hey, there's something for the Cowley opposites thread: Mental health and GCA.com

[JESII]

Touche...

[archie_struthers]

 

I'm with Naccarato on this one...the time and effort to do rankings is better spent elsewhere!

They don't matter !

Please refrain from this in the future....

[Bill Shamleffer]

I have to point out one glaring omission per golf in the St. Louis area as represented on this list.  And this is NOT a debatable point.  Spencer T. Olin is #144 on this list.  Now I understand that this far down it only takes a couple of votes to get to #144.  But St. Louis C.C. is nowhere on this list.

I GUARANTEE you St. Louis C.C. is better then Spencer T. Olin, and should always, on any list be ranked above Spencer T. Olin.

I do know that if I had the capability to rank the top 200 courses in the world, St. Louis C.C. would be a candidate, and that Spencer T. Olin would not be a candidate.  It is a good public course, but Spencer T. Olin is not a nationally ranked course.

My conclusion is that everything after 100 should just be thrown out and ignored.  But I would summise that this conclusion is pretty obvious.  Just assign those after #100 an MC, and list them alphabetically.

(And then either remove Spencer T. Olin, or add St. Louis C.C.)

[Mark Bourgeois]

Whew, for a minute there I thought you were going to beat on Annbriar at 99, but your rec would put it right inside the cut line.

Maybe Matthew could throw out Royal Melbourne (East) at 143 and slot in SLCC.  Would that work?

[Matthew Hunt]

Started a new rating from what I've learned.

[Jeff Loh]

Only courses i have played

1.  The old course
2. NGLA
3. Prairie Dunes
4. Myopia Hunt
5. Merion
6. Shinnecock Hills
7. Friars Head
8. Westchester CC West  (under rated on this site)
9. Bethpage noir
10. Yale

[Matthew Hunt]

Only courses i have played

1.  The old course
2. NGLA
3. Prairie Dunes
4. Myopia Hunt
5. Merion
6. Shinnecock Hills
7. Friars Head
8. Westchester CC West  (under rated on this site)
9. Bethpage noir
10. Yale

Jeff, swap over too new thread (intresting list)

[Jeff Loh]

matthew
sorry--not enough coffee!

[Bill Brightly]

Limited to courses that I have played or walked

1. Pine Valley
2. Merion
3. Ballybunion Old
4. Winged Foot
5. Oakmont
6. Shinnecock Hills
7. Pebble Beach
8. Spyglass
9. Bethpage Black
10.Plainfield

left off list Masquamicut, Ridgewood, Saucon Valley Old, Weyhill, Garden City, Westchester, Aronomink, Lahinch, Waterville, Old Head  

[Bill Brightly]

Richard,

I have been thinking about this idea: a Golf Club Atlas checklist/scoring sheet along the lines of what USGA raters and the magazines use. Maybe ours would have a different angle, one that weights architecture more than conditioning, etc.

I have never seen the forms used by other raters. Perhaps there are other GCA members who might be able to modify one for GCA use? Then if any of us choose, we could submit a GCA rating on the courses we play.

It is a lot of work and many won't bother, but perhaps there are few who would enjoy studying a course along a specific set of "architectural" guidelines.

P.S.  Let me know when you get it finished. 

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