Tom,
   Don't get me wrong, I love the uphill approaches, and they contribute to my lofty praise for this great course.  I'm just trying to see the discussion from another point of view.  Several of these uphill approaches are quite repelling in nature if you don't hit the shot just right, and I'm wondering how often that is the case in GBI.

Cheers,
Brad

Having done a Google search, I've found that Mr. Wyatt, in addition to being an active octogenarian industrialist, he is also a man of letters, and a world-class photographer specializing in golf architecture.  His fine contributions on this thread helped me to understand why Sand Hills is no higher than #2 on my list of greatest courses.

Huck,

I was under the impression that you needed no invitation to CPC.  I hear that you are so well known and respected by the staff and caddy corp, that you're considered as a member emeritus.  Perhaps you can help me some day to join the group of great caddies out there.  What is the average tenure for these guys, 25 years?

I did play SH from the middle tees.  Don't you remember counting my money after I wrapped my 5-iron around your neck on Ben's Porch?  And don't think I wasn't tempted to repeat it at Stevinson.

MikeH,

You are falling for the "awshucks, I am a just a pawn in the game of life" act.  Word has it that Dick Youngscap (sp) is sending his G550 to pick up Huck and his companion at SJC, and that upon hearing of Tom's visit to the site, C & C also requested to be picked-up (I think that Mr. Youngscap told Bill and Ben that they can come, but on their own dime).

As an aside, Mr. Huntley failed to mention on his thread regarding statutory limits to non-member access to private clubs, that a special category or designation was written in deference to Mr. Huckaby by the courts.  In effect, the clubs can either accrue the comped green fees, hospitality, meals and drinks and apply them at year-end as credits to the 15% limit on a 3 for 1 basis.  Alternatively, the paper costs of his visit can be reconciled to the club's goodwill or prestige accounts, recognizing how the visit adds significantly to the club's assets.  This does not necessarily follow GAP, but I understand that there is an arcane Huckaby clause buried in the code.
 

 In effect, the clubs can either accrue the comped green fees, hospitality, meals and drinks and apply them at year-end as credits to the 15% limit on a 3 for 1 basis.  Alternatively, the paper costs of his visit can be reconciled to the club's goodwill or prestige accounts, recognizing how the visit adds significantly to the club's assets.  This does not necessarily follow GAP, but I understand that there is an arcane Huckaby clause buried in the code.
 

Alas, it's the 80's all over again.

Mike

Alex:

It's not blasphemy.  I believe I've tried very hard to see your point of view, and have left it at "to each his own" each time.

I just don't get what you see as weaknesses at Sand Hills... and also really don't get what you see as disqualifications from greatness.  You do understand that the great UK links also have plenty of raised approaches and/or skyline greens, right?  So I just gather that you think there are too many at SH, and that this makes the course repetitive enough to disqualify it from greatness.

Did I at least get that correct?

The problem is I don't agree with it.  Each of the raised greens at Sand Hills is distinctly different from the others.  i don't see any repetition at all.  Each is also at the end of a damn great golf hole, so even if they were repetitive, well.. I could live with it!

Oh well.  Like I say, to each his own.  And while I can understand you feeling a bit beaten down, do also understand that it's actually a very small group that would call Sand Hills the best anything.  Most do think it's a great golf course, but few put it to the absolute top.  You just had the misfortune of being somewhat ganged up on by a few of us who do.

TH

Mike:

You are correct, sir.  Well said.
All of it.

TH

Lou -- I can personally testify to your fine sportsmanship after your singles match with Huck

Gene, in the interest of debate, do  you (or anybody else for that matter) have photos of each hole taken from the approach shot location or tee if its a par 3? Let's go through them.  I would love to find out that my recollection is not correct.

Well, Dr. Gene disagreed re 1, 2, 4, 7, 11 and 13.

The BEST shot might not be a runner, but it certainly can be done on each, and MUST be done down-wind.  

I believe he'd know.

 

Shivas:

Agreed.  

I guess I just take issue with calling any of these holes "fly or die".  To me that means hazard or bunker to be carried, absolutely no choice.  That is certainly not the case at any hole at Sand Hills with the exception of 17, which is a short (and great) hole anyway.

But yes, on each of these holes, the percentage play for the better, stronger player (absent down-wind) is to carry the upslopes.  But from long distance - as us mortals are likely gonna have on several of those holes, playing from the tips - well it's nice to know we can bounce it up... that there is nothing preventing us from doing so.  

TH

I don't know if SH is the greatest course, but it is my favorite. My top 3 are in the same order as the "court jester". SH gets the nod over Cypress and NGLA, for non-architectural reasons. I love being away from "civilization" and no golf course feels further away than SH. I also like the feeling of being accepted/belonging at SH (even though I don't), which I most definitely do not at NGLA or Cypress. Certainly the people are nice and accomodating at CPC and NGLA, but I am always conscious of being an outsider.
    I will say that Sand Hills has the least less than great holes of the 3 courses. As a matter of fact the worse things I can think of at SH are that #13 and #17 are essentially the same hole in different lengths (although #17 originally had a different tee angle). The other point would be having #7 and #8 be back to back short par 4's. Both are driveable, but the green complexes are asking you to do different things, which are good things, but I think back to back interrupts the flow a tad.
    Someone else who played there felt #9 was a weak link and was just filler to get you back to Ben's porch, but I didn't find that to be the case at all.
    I can't wait for the end of June so I can hear tales of the epic gathering.

I was just reading thru this old thread and hope to someday play there.  Only a 7 hour drive for me.    

I certainly think it is the most significant course built in the US since WW II.  To me, it is the reason that so many other great courses were built in the manner in which they were.  It gave a perspective to golf course architecture which was missing until then. Of course there was strategy designed into courses but visual appeal was such a significant factor that it often overcame strategy.  RTJ certainly built some fine courses as did Pete Dye but nothing that comes close to SH.  The obvious courses such as Bandon can be attributed to the vision of SH but look at others like Galloway or for that matter, Whistling Straits.  SH was a vision of Dick Youngscap that gave C & C the opportunity to make a significant step forward in GCA and we owe them a debt of gratitude.