Golfweek State-by-State

« **Reply #100 on:** January 04, 2007, 08:06:18 PM »

Glenn

Yes,Mystic Rock is the much modified Dye course at Nemacolin, one of the 2 courses there. I've never played there as it's a good 5 hour drive from the Philly suburbs but I've played both courses at Hershey and really like them. I've only played golf once in OH at a public course near Dayton that was so memorable that I can't remember its name. Except for Bethpage Black and Red, the publics in all 3 states are not top drawer.

Steve

« **Reply #101 on:** January 04, 2007, 08:31:11 PM »

Steve,

Absolutely. I was only trying to say to Matt that Ohio has nothing to write home about either. What is the course on 80 on the way to NY. Seven Springs or something like that? That course looks better from the highway than anything in Ohio.

A lot of it comes down to resorts and that is where Ohio gets killed. As I said, Ohio is no vacation.

« **Reply #102 on:** January 04, 2007, 09:26:45 PM »

Doug,

Your disgust at the failure of the raters to visit Kentucky is matched by my disgust at driving into the parking lot at Lassing Pointe after all morning in the car in late November to find the course closed on a day when the temp was pushing sixty degrees. I drove over to Triple Crown where they informed me the city had closed the course for the season.

With apologies to Jimmy Buffett:

Some people claim that it's the raters to blame
But I think, it's their own damn fault.

Mike

« **Reply #103 on:** January 04, 2007, 09:53:10 PM »

Doug, As you can tell not all Hill people love their neighbors aka Tenn and Kentucky hill people do not mix.

« **Reply #104 on:** January 04, 2007, 09:58:28 PM »

Quote from: John Goodman on January 04, 2007, 12:08:17 PM

Quote from: Doug Wright on January 03, 2007, 09:03:43 PM
From a tour of some RTJ Trail courses last spring, I'm surprised that (I think) only one Trail course is on the Alabama list, Grand National Lake, and it isn't even the better of the two courses at the facility! IMO Grand National Links is a far better golf course from every perspective.

Alabama
1. Limestone Springs, Oneonta (m) Jerry Pate Golf Design
2. Kiva Dunes, Gulf Shores (m) ditto
3. Capstone Club, Brookwood (m)*
4. FarmLinks Golf Club at Pursell Farms, Sylacauga (m)
5. Grand National (Lake), Opelika (m)

I think the Alabama list and its lack of Trail courses is pretty insightful. The Trail courses are good and enjoyable to play but have a marked sameness to them architecturally (a thread not too long ago referred to them as the Red Lobster or Olive Garden of GCA). The top four on the list are better than anything on the Trail, or at least as good, IMHO. If you did a top ten public in the state, Trail courses would dominate the bottom half though.

John, I think this list points out how much good work Jerry Pate's design team is doing these days. And Dancing Rabbit, Canebrake and Old Waverly (private) are highly rated in Mississippi. We are very pleased with the work at Pensacola CC, which opened in November to great applause from the members.

I plan to send in a "My Home Course" soon about Jerry's work at Pensacola CC. His courses are fun to play, not many lost balls, designed to play fast and firm, and are pretty affordable when public. HIs bunkering at PCC is very good, Ross-style flat bottoms with steep grass faces.

« **Reply #105 on:** January 04, 2007, 10:01:30 PM »

Quote from: Bill_McBride on January 04, 2007, 09:58:28 PM

Quote from: John Goodman on January 04, 2007, 12:08:17 PM
Quote from: Doug Wright on January 03, 2007, 09:03:43 PM
From a tour of some RTJ Trail courses last spring, I'm surprised that (I think) only one Trail course is on the Alabama list, Grand National Lake, and it isn't even the better of the two courses at the facility! IMO Grand National Links is a far better golf course from every perspective.

Alabama
1. Limestone Springs, Oneonta (m) Jerry Pate Golf Design
2. Kiva Dunes, Gulf Shores (m) ditto
3. Capstone Club, Brookwood (m)*
4. FarmLinks Golf Club at Pursell Farms, Sylacauga (m)
5. Grand National (Lake), Opelika (m)

I think the Alabama list and its lack of Trail courses is pretty insightful. The Trail courses are good and enjoyable to play but have a marked sameness to them architecturally (a thread not too long ago referred to them as the Red Lobster or Olive Garden of GCA). The top four on the list are better than anything on the Trail, or at least as good, IMHO. If you did a top ten public in the state, Trail courses would dominate the bottom half though.

John, I think this list points out how much good work Jerry Pate's design team is doing these days. And Dancing Rabbit, Canebrake and Old Waverly (private) are highly rated in Mississippi. We are very pleased with the work at Pensacola CC, which opened in November to great applause from the members.

I plan to send in a "My Home Course" soon about Jerry's work. His courses are fun to play, not many lost balls, designed to play fast and firm, and are pretty affordable when public.

Bill,

Have you played Old Waverly?

« **Reply #106 on:** January 04, 2007, 10:02:58 PM »

Glenn, no but I would like to. Have you? It looked very good back when the Women's Open was there a few years back. I believe that might have been a "co-design" (Fazio?) when Jerry was learning the design business.

« **Reply #107 on:** January 04, 2007, 10:09:44 PM »

Quote from: Craig Edgmand on January 04, 2007, 02:21:39 PM

Jordan,

How could I forget the Classic!! One of my personal favs..

Now with Harbour Pointe your just being silly.

Craig,

The one time I played Classic we had a record rain fall for one day.
I remember shooting a 75 with three birdies in the absolute WORST weather ever.
Yet, I had an amazing time.
A great course.

And Harbour Point..
Let's just say I play it too much for me to not put it on the list.
That course is (metaphor here) dear to my heart.
LOL
Nah, I like Harbour. Fiun, solid track.

Cheers,

Jordan

« **Reply #108 on:** January 04, 2007, 10:19:42 PM »

Bill,

Yes, I have, many times. A friend of mine went to school there and we all became pretty friendly with the pro and the owner's son. It was a marvelous time. The golf course is really quite good, but the experience is top-notch. From the clubhouse to the cottages, the lake and the people. It is a pleasure to play golf at Old Waverly. The golf course has absolutely nothing in the way of a bad hole. It is one of the most relaxed places I have been, because there is quite a presence as far as national members and then they allow people from out of town to stay and play. It is quite an experience. I have never been somewhere, where absolutely everyone you come across is just ecstatic to be there. If you can get four guys together to go up, I highly recommend the place as a whole. It is kind of expensive, but a couple of days wouldn't kill anyone. Pate and Cupp did a FINE job on this golf course. It is not that difficult because the greens are incredibly flat, but some of the views and the setting and the golf are really wonderful. The first hole is one of the best openers in the South on some list, I think it was it the pro shop.

« **Reply #109 on:** January 04, 2007, 10:21:40 PM »

At least Golfweek got the top five in Oregon

1. Pacific Dunes
2. Bandon Dunes
3. Bandon Trails
4. Crosswater
5. Pumpkin Ridge (Ghost Creek)
6. Running Y Ranch
7. Aspen Lakes
8. Eagle Point
9. Reserve Vineyard &GC (South)
10.Tokatee

The next list will add Pronghorn (Nicklaus) and Juniper, which should place 6 and 7. I'd round out the list with Eagle Point, Running Y Ranch and take your pick at #10. Sorry, Rees.
And I won't even stand up for my home course.

« **Reply #110 on:** January 04, 2007, 10:38:05 PM »

Peter,

Isn't Pronghorn private?

« **Reply #111 on:** January 04, 2007, 10:40:44 PM »

Quote from: Glenn Spencer on January 04, 2007, 10:19:42 PM

Bill,

Yes, I have, many times. A friend of mine went to school there and we all became pretty friendly with the pro and the owner's son. It was a marvelous time. The golf course is really quite good, but the experience is top-notch. From the clubhouse to the cottages, the lake and the people. It is a pleasure to play golf at Old Waverly. The golf course has absolutely nothing in the way of a bad hole. It is one of the most relaxed places I have been, because there is quite a presence as far as national members and then they allow people from out of town to stay and play. It is quite an experience. I have never been somewhere, where absolutely everyone you come across is just ecstatic to be there. If you can get four guys together to go up, I highly recommend the place as a whole. It is kind of expensive, but a couple of days wouldn't kill anyone. Pate and Cupp did a FINE job on this golf course. It is not that difficult because the greens are incredibly flat, but some of the views and the setting and the golf are really wonderful. The first hole is one of the best openers in the South on some list, I think it was it the pro shop.

It does sound great.

Apparently Jerry's design team has learned some new tricks, the greens at PCC are anything but "flattish."

« **Reply #112 on:** January 04, 2007, 10:52:06 PM »

Sean,
I was under the impression that when the Fazio course at Pronghorn opened, Fazio would become the private course and the Nicklaus goes to resort status. But I could be wrong.
Wouldn't be the first time.

« **Reply #113 on:** January 04, 2007, 11:04:38 PM »

Quote from: Bill_McBride on January 04, 2007, 10:40:44 PM

Quote from: Glenn Spencer on January 04, 2007, 10:19:42 PM
Bill,

Yes, I have, many times. A friend of mine went to school there and we all became pretty friendly with the pro and the owner's son. It was a marvelous time. The golf course is really quite good, but the experience is top-notch. From the clubhouse to the cottages, the lake and the people. It is a pleasure to play golf at Old Waverly. The golf course has absolutely nothing in the way of a bad hole. It is one of the most relaxed places I have been, because there is quite a presence as far as national members and then they allow people from out of town to stay and play. It is quite an experience. I have never been somewhere, where absolutely everyone you come across is just ecstatic to be there. If you can get four guys together to go up, I highly recommend the place as a whole. It is kind of expensive, but a couple of days wouldn't kill anyone. Pate and Cupp did a FINE job on this golf course. It is not that difficult because the greens are incredibly flat, but some of the views and the setting and the golf are really wonderful. The first hole is one of the best openers in the South on some list, I think it was it the pro shop.

It does sound great.

Apparently Jerry's design team has learned some new tricks, the greens at PCC are anything but "flattish."

Maybe, but I guess the greens could have been Cupp. There is nothing flatish about the greens at Old Waverly, they are Flat.

« **Reply #114 on:** January 05, 2007, 08:55:41 AM »

LOL Tiger;

Indeed since I am admittedly partial to hills and forest courses, it is a bit ironic that my favorite course 'Eagle Ridge' was built by Hills' company with Forrest as the onsite architect. Good stuff, huh?

And Tiger, on the thread about the Hillbilly Tour, I expressed my amazement that they chose a flatland course in Western KY rather than a course in the East KY hills where the hillbillys actually reside.

Isn't this a fun site?

Doug

« **Reply #115 on:** January 05, 2007, 09:55:08 AM »

OK Jordan, Harbor Pointe is nice but really......the one course not on the list for Washington that I consider a great routing is McCormick Woods. Others not mentioned would be Moses Point and Washington National.

A great weekend for locals is McCormick, Trophy Lake and Gold Mountain. You can just about throw a rock between the three of them.

Alas there is no GREAT public golf in Washington, simply a load of pretty good tracks to spend an afternoon with pals.

This list for the great State of WA will change completely with new additions in the Tacoma area in the next several months. Which should give an opportunity to sell some more magazines.

« **Reply #116 on:** January 05, 2007, 10:43:38 AM »

Quote from: Bill_McBride on January 04, 2007, 09:58:28 PM

Quote from: John Goodman on January 04, 2007, 12:08:17 PM
Quote from: Doug Wright on January 03, 2007, 09:03:43 PM
From a tour of some RTJ Trail courses last spring, I'm surprised that (I think) only one Trail course is on the Alabama list, Grand National Lake, and it isn't even the better of the two courses at the facility! IMO Grand National Links is a far better golf course from every perspective.

Alabama
1. Limestone Springs, Oneonta (m) Jerry Pate Golf Design
2. Kiva Dunes, Gulf Shores (m) ditto
3. Capstone Club, Brookwood (m)*
4. FarmLinks Golf Club at Pursell Farms, Sylacauga (m)
5. Grand National (Lake), Opelika (m)

I think the Alabama list and its lack of Trail courses is pretty insightful. The Trail courses are good and enjoyable to play but have a marked sameness to them architecturally (a thread not too long ago referred to them as the Red Lobster or Olive Garden of GCA). The top four on the list are better than anything on the Trail, or at least as good, IMHO. If you did a top ten public in the state, Trail courses would dominate the bottom half though.

John, I think this list points out how much good work Jerry Pate's design team is doing these days. And Dancing Rabbit, Canebrake and Old Waverly (private) are highly rated in Mississippi. We are very pleased with the work at Pensacola CC, which opened in November to great applause from the members.

I plan to send in a "My Home Course" soon about Jerry's work at Pensacola CC. His courses are fun to play, not many lost balls, designed to play fast and firm, and are pretty affordable when public. HIs bunkering at PCC is very good, Ross-style flat bottoms with steep grass faces.

I look forward to your report on Pensacola CC, Bill. Pate is responsible for some other fine work in Alabama: Steelwood (private) in Loxley, Ol' Colony (public) in Tuscaloosa, Timberline (public) in Calera and Old Overton (private, with Fazio) in Birmingham. The latter two are quite good, and though I haven't played the former, I've heard very positive reports on them.

« **Reply #117 on:** January 05, 2007, 10:49:42 AM »

Quote from: Doug Wright on January 03, 2007, 09:03:43 PM

From a tour of some RTJ Trail courses last spring, I'm surprised that (I think) only one Trail course is on the Alabama list, Grand National Lake, and it isn't even the better of the two courses at the facility! IMO Grand National Links is a far better golf course from every perspective.

Man, was I glad to see this! I thought the Links course was clearly the better of the two at Grand National, but NOBODY seems to agree. We'll have our own ratings, Doug.

« **Reply #118 on:** January 05, 2007, 11:22:57 AM »

Quote from: Dan_Callahan on January 04, 2007, 12:18:41 PM

Montaup is okay, probably next on the list of publics. But it doesn't compare to the quality of the privates.

It is very short (6,400 yards, I think) and there are a few holes that run next to the highway. Some great views at various points. The last time I played there, it was a Saturday in summer and they were allowing fivesomes! It was one of the longest rounds of my life. I will only go back in the off-season.

Quote

Dan...Perhaps a little tough on Montaup. I have always found it to be sporty and enjoyable. First two holes, which are quite good, are along a side road with the highway on the other side of that road. Have not found it that distracting. Some very good green complexes with quick greens and lots of undulation, especially on the front. Always in excellent shape especially for the amount of play.

Typically don't play there on the weekends but pace of play has always been an asset not a liability. Can usually get around in 4 hours or so. It is a bit short but offers different options of angles off the tee for best angle of attack to the greens, especially on the front. The front and back are a bit different. No architect is listed but the front has always seemed 'older' and a bit more classic in design. Have always thought that perhaps 9 were added and the back has a Cornish feel to it. Overall worth playing.

One course in RI that is never mentioned is Crystal Lake in the north eastern part of a very small state. Semi-private course that is never crowded. About 5 years old. Farm land, links style with fun greens and overall an excellent public for a state with few good public layouts. Would probably rank it 4th - Newport National, Triggs, Montaup, Crystal Lake - then not much.

« **Reply #119 on:** January 05, 2007, 11:48:04 AM »

Dan / Cliff,

I was not looking to compare Montaup or Triggs for that matter to the private courses in the state. Rather, I wanted to know how Montaup stacked up with the 5 courses listed for RI's public courses. Also as for Montaup being short Triggs is just over 6500 yards, right?

How is Winnapaug in Westerly?

Chris

« **Reply #120 on:** January 05, 2007, 12:03:44 PM »

Chris...Have never played Winnapaug. I play lots of public golf In NE especially RI and Ma. DK why I have never made it to Winnapaug, but dk much about it and would be interested if anyone has played it. As for Montaup it plays shorter than Triggs which somehows always seems to play longer than its yardage. For someone who is thrilled with a 230 yard drive though I obviously don't need courses oveer 6500.

Triggs by the way is really a fantastic course if one can get by the 'local atmosphere'. It epitomizes public golf and that's not all that bad if one enjoys atmosphere that is as far from Newport CC as you can get. Wish they'd clean it up around the edges - traps, rough full of bare spots, etc., but basic condition is really quite good. Having played Triggs and Shennecosett in Groton, Ct. - both exellent public Ross designs I actually prefer Triggs.

Finally as stated I would put Montaup 3rd in RI for publics and well worth playing....

Cliff

« **Reply #121 on:** January 05, 2007, 12:33:24 PM »

Cliff,

I only asked about Winnapaug, b/c it supposedly a Ross course that is actually near Shennecosett, close to the coast.

I too have played Triggs and Shennecosett. The courses have a different feel obviosly. Shenny is much more open than Triggs. I liked them both and if I had to choose one to play over the other, I would most likely choose Shenny.

When I played Triggs, I was paired with two local guys that play the course often. They said that the operaters spend most of their maintenance budget on the fairways and greens (which were in good condition). The rough is the rough and not maintained, I noticed the bare spots when in it as well.

Chris

« **Reply #122 on:** January 05, 2007, 12:47:22 PM »

Quote from: W.H. Cosgrove on January 05, 2007, 09:55:08 AM

OK Jordan, Harbor Pointe is nice but really......the one course not on the list for Washington that I consider a great routing is McCormick Woods. Others not mentioned would be Moses Point and Washington National.

A great weekend for locals is McCormick, Trophy Lake and Gold Mountain. You can just about throw a rock between the three of them.

Alas there is no GREAT public golf in Washington, simply a load of pretty good tracks to spend an afternoon with pals.

This list for the great State of WA will change completely with new additions in the Tacoma area in the next several months. Which should give an opportunity to sell some more magazines.

I still have not played Trophy Lake or Mccormick.

And, WA National was number 2 on my list.
I agree that it is a good track.

I'd say its time for me to get across the pond to Bremerton...

« **Reply #123 on:** January 05, 2007, 06:00:24 PM »

Quote from: Chris_Blakely on January 04, 2007, 04:05:39 PM

Sean,

I would also go with Hunter's Ridge over the Orchards. I would not go with Hunter's Ridge over the other courses that Brian and I listed (for the most part) that did not make the list. I prefer The Chief, Hawk's Eye, Marywood, The Mines, Diamond Springs, to name a few over The Orchards and Hunter's Ridge. I wonder if the RTJ II billing is helphing the Orchards as well as hosting the US Pub Links 4 or 5 years ago.

Chris

Yea...Timberstone should be in there. I haven't played it but I heard it's really good. Elk Ridge I have heard is good as well. I wasn't that impressed with the Orchards. But, that was just my taste.

-Brian

« **Reply #124 on:** January 05, 2007, 08:09:24 PM »

Quote from: A.G._Crockett on January 05, 2007, 10:49:42 AM

Quote from: Doug Wright on January 03, 2007, 09:03:43 PM
From a tour of some RTJ Trail courses last spring, I'm surprised that (I think) only one Trail course is on the Alabama list, Grand National Lake, and it isn't even the better of the two courses at the facility! IMO Grand National Links is a far better golf course from every perspective.

Man, was I glad to see this! I thought the Links course was clearly the better of the two at Grand National, but NOBODY seems to agree. We'll have our own ratings, Doug.

AG,

There's someone else here on GCA.com who prefers the Links over the Lake and told me so this week-but he did it on an IM describing his RTJ Trail experience and you know I can't reveal any IM sources....

News:

Steve_ Shaffer

Glenn Spencer

Mike Hendren

Tiger_Bernhardt

Bill_McBride

Glenn Spencer

Bill_McBride

Jordan Wall

Glenn Spencer

peter_p

Sean Leary

Bill_McBride

peter_p

Glenn Spencer

Doug Ralston

W.H. Cosgrove

John Goodman

A.G._Crockett

Cliff Hamm

Chris_Blakely

Cliff Hamm

Chris_Blakely

Jordan Wall

Brian Cenci

Doug Wright