There has been a theory that MacK deliberately softened the greens so they wouldn't compete with spectacular scenery. That has always made sence to me, until I read this question and now I wonder.MacK was designing wild greens long before his association with Maxwell. If there is another reason, someone familiar with his other Californian efforts might have the answer.The 8th and 9th it seems to me are exceptions. What about his other collaborations with Robert Hunter, what are those greens like? What about Marion Hollins influence, I know I sure wouldn't have wanted to cross her, yikes.

Ran,It's an interesting point you raise, and there is some clarification needed regarding Cypress as these are issues I have been researching for my book on the course.Greens 7 and 8 have seen signifcant change. The whole front tier on 7 was abandoned and partially filled in for unknown reasons(thus explaining the tiny size of this green). #8 used to have a four or five "step" green and the silly back left pin used to be the ninth tee.Green #1 appears in the old photos to be different than today's version (much more severe). Ben Crenshaw agrees with me, but Jeff Markow the superintendent is not sure. Jeff has an excellent eye and great knowledge of the course (see his in-house bunker work), so I am trusting his instincts on this for now until we can get out there with the old photos.Every green has lost some pin placements that would be very interesting, particularly because they would be on areas with more slope. I am convinced that MacKenzie considered a top pin placement (third tier) on 9 where #10 tee is. See the photo of nine green in the Golden Age and notice where the gentleman is standing. This would make it a remarkably severe green.And finally, aerification. Riviera's old black and whites show greens with much more undulation than we have today. The greens at Riviera were aerified sometimes as often as every two weeks for stretches during the late 80s, and there is a debate about the significance of aerification in softening contours. That said, even if Cypress' had more "movement," I think it was far less than what Maxwell and MacKenzie did at Crystal Downs or even Michigan. But Valley Club's greens are extrememly subtle, but plenty interesting considering their size.Geoff

Ran,Cypress Point has done in-house restoration work on 16 and 17 (greenside bunkers) in an attempt to work toward a master plan. I sense that no green reconstruction work will take place, except for possibly the fifteenth in some way (I sense it is a priority to get that old right middle pin back in some manner). There is more cliff stabilization needed on the western face, and that may be the time they try to do some work on the green. And obviously, the bunkers there are in serious need of restoration. Geoff

What do folks think of the greens at Cypress Point?  Is "relatively tame" accurate and, if so, is that a bad thing?

I believe the work on 15 that Geoff hinted at above has happened.  Have there been any other changes?

i thought they were quite challenging too Huck!

I suppose some might be called tame compared to Crystal Downs (from what I hear)... but if they are tame relative to the rest of the world of golf, then I need to quit the game.

Because thinking about this further, I don't think one can call either 6 or 10 tame either... and 12 and 14 and 17 also have their challenges.... truly the only tame green on the course is 16, and given the shot required to reach that green, it would be complete overkill to make it wacky.  As it stands, there's enough contour to make one thing anyway.....

TH

To respond to Huck's CP analysis:

PB:

1:  left to right, back to front, but all in one direction
2:  Generally flat, ironically plays better as a long par 4 green
3:  Small, right to left, with falloffs at front and esp. rear
4:  Flat, back to front
5:  Good contouring, an effort to get shots to roll front to back and left to right
6:  Large and flat
7:  Small and flat
8:  Small and heavily contoured back to front, left to right
9:  Back to front, left to right, not as heavy as #8 and #10
10:  Hard left to right
11:  Hard back to front, bunkers make for wild putts
12:  Heavy back to front, lots of slope
13:  Subtle right to left slope, putts can break uphill!
14:  Wow, wacky green, heaviest slope on the course on the right half
15:  Flattish, slight right to left
16:  Pretty heavy right to left slope, and slightly toward the rear
17:  Wacky green shape, there isn't alot of contour, save for right middle
18:  Pretty flat, for the same reasons as #16 at CP

The rundown:

More subtle:

 PB:  13
 

Wow Brad! While not wildly contoured, I thought 13 was very severe from back to front. There are few greens I've played where being above the pin was more punished than this one. Maybe I'm overstating this.....

This might have something to do with green speed rather than contour.  The two times I played Cypress the greens were not at all fast, probably set up for member and mmeber's guest play.  Most of the times I've played Pebble the greens were much faster than that, maybe to prove to the visitors that it is a "championship" course.  I think if you set up Cypress for a tournament, the greens would not be seen to be at all tame, but I still think that the good players would score low if they were on their game.

Hucks, how would you compare the severity of Pasa vs CPC?

Hucks, how would you compare the severity of Pasa vs CPC?

David:

Given you've just cited the course with the wildest, most severe set of greens I have ever seen - such that they get absurd at speeds over 8-9, well... CPC's greens can be called TAME in general compared to Pasatiempo.

TH

David:

I took it no other way!  You just did happen to mention one of very few courses compared to which CPC's greens might be considered tame.  I gather Crystal Downs is another.

Pasa's greens at 8 stimp are as fun as golf can get... Pasa's greens at 10 or above make the game completely stupid.

Thankfully the last few times I've been there the greens seemed to be around 8.

They still kicked my ass, but the kicking was very fun!

TH