[John Sessions]

Since this seems the week for best lists, what is everybody's list of best long par threes? The reason I ask is that I think these type holes are tough to build - ie long but still interesting.1. Cypress Point 16.........2. Yale 9th3. Portrush Calamity4. Ballybunion 15th5. Royal Aberbeen 3rd (or maybe it's the 4th)In fact, other holes not on it would be Carnoustie's 16th and Turnberry's 6th. I wonder why the Btrits seem to have more than their fair share?Note: the 5th at PV is missing

[b. williams]

kittanset's 11th hole is an arresting hole to play time and time again. so is the 11th at winchester, ma. older courses seem to have better long one shotters. maybe modern architects try too hard. 17 at whistling straits looks pitiful - far too much going on.

[Tom_Doak]

Funnily enough, every time I try to design a par three over 215 yards [or under 150], our client tries to talk us out of it.  Too often, they've gotten me to put in a tee at 150 on the short hole [or added one afterwards], but I don't listen much on the long par-3's.My best are the 17th at The Legends, the 5th at Black Forest, the 4th at Beechtree, the 5th at Lost Dunes, and the 17th at Apache Stronghold [probably the best of the lot.]The two best ones I can think of are overseas, too.  You left out the 6th at West Sussex -- the only hole I can think of which plays sort of like 16 at Cypress, in that you often consider laying up.  And the 13th at The Addington is terrific, though more straightforward.The 17th at Merion must also figure somewhere.

[Ran Morrissett]

I second the 13th at The Addington and the 6th at West Sussex. I would also add the 12th at Royal Ashdown which at 255 yards is quite a wallop and the 4th at Riveria, even though some of its versatility has been diminished. Tom's reverse Redan at Lost Dunes plays really well too - a long bunker shot to a back hole location is loads of fun.However, I too am surprised by the preponderance of holes in the UK. Interesting.

[Curious]

I wouldn't have called the 5th at Lost Dunes a mirror-image Redan -- the green is essentially a circle (i.e., not at an angle).  I thought it was more similar to the 4th at Riviera.  By the way, the 5th is the best par three at Lost Dunes -- excellent.

[T_MacWood]

I agree with the 5th at Lost Dunes and would add the 3rd at Sand Hills, both are similar in principal to the 4th at Riviera and the 11th at L.A.The downhill 2nd at Sleepy Hollow (Ohio)is a 230 yard reverse Redan designed by Stanley Thompson. The green is bordered diagonally on the right by a deep ravine and creek. Very intimidating.I'm curious what the opinion of these long par-3s, from those who have seen or played them:#3--Olympic#5--Fishers Island#9--Jasper Park#5--Timber Point, if there's anything remaining

[Ran Morrissett]

On a scale of one to ten (being the best), I would give the holes: 5th at Fishers a 9 (talk about an inspiring setting!), 9th at Jasper a 6 (great green that is hard to read but the hole is too much of a drop shot for my likings), 3rd at Olympic an 8 (maybe my favourite shot on the course), 11th at LACC an 8.Still, your description of the 2nd at Sleepy Hollow sounds as good as any of them. Where in Ohio is it? It sounds worth tracking down, especially being a big fan of Stanley's?

[peter_p]

I'd nominate Oakmont #16 about 225 yards. As an observation on long par 3s, and the dominance of British courses, these were  designed when today's aerial assault was unknown. The ground between tee and green was an integral part of the design. Now it isn't, except an architect's blindness to this part of architecture usually defeats the player who wants (has ?) to bounce the ball onto the green.

[Sean H.]

How could you forget my favorite -- the 4th at Royal County Down?  Judging from the photos of 16 at Cypress Point, Newcastle's 4th is every bit as spectacular and demanding.

[T_MacWood]

RanI'm also a big fan of Stanley's, although I must admit I've unfortunately only played two of his courses, Cape Breton and Sleepy Hollow. Sleepy Hollow is in Breckville, which is just south of Cleveland.It is a public course and lies in the Cuyahoga Valley National Recreation Area.The course dates from 1923, which makes very early in his career. Its a little over 6600 yards from the tips on very rolling terrain, and although it would never make anyone's list of greatest courses, it meets your criteria of great fun. The 1st lolls you into false sense of your game, with a severely down hill 530 yd. par 5, which is easily reached in two. Folowed by the ego crushing 2nd, the 460 yd. par-4 3rd, without level square yard, followed by the 570 yd. 4th. The course is made up a great, very-good, ordinary and just plain bizzare holes, including the horseshoe shaped par-5 14th and the drivable 275 yd par-4 around a pond 17th.I have always felt that Thompson was the least appreciated of the great designers of his day.

[DBE]

Third at Chicago, ninth at Piping Rock and 16th at Yeamans--J Morrissett, what do you call these holes with the swales in front?

[Gary Sherman]

To B. Williams:You are absolutely right about many of the early architects in New England designing a long one shotter in their routings.  Ross and Stiles who designed most of the courses on the 1920's in Mass, NH, VT and Maine have a number of simple straitforward long one shotters that can make or break a round.  The 17th at Taconic (221 yards), the 15th at Woodland (MA) (220 yards) are a couple of more examples.The monster, however, is the third at Myopia Hunt Club.  Designed in 1896 by Herbert Leeds, the hole measures 253 yards to a two tier green.  There is a deep cross bunker about 30 yards from the green that if you mishit a 3 wood (or even a driver for you short hitters), you're cooked.  Now there is a caveat on listing this hole as an original long three in that it was originally designed as a drive and pitch par four.  It was changed (I don't know when) to a three because as a four it was a birdie fest.

[John Sessions]

With each post on Myopia and from reading Geoff's new book, I am convinced that Myopia is one of the most under-appreciated courses in the United States. It sounds like Leeds' design held great influence on many subsequent architects.

[Mark_Rowlinson]

An old thread.

I wonder if Tom Doak has added to the list of long par 3s he has built?

[Bob_Huntley]

Of modern courses, the 7th and 9th on the Shore at MPCC are worth a look. Both in excess of 225yards and more than a breath of wind at times.

Bob

[John Kirk]

An old thread.

I wonder if Tom Doak has added to the list of long par 3s he has built?

Mark,

I've played two of Tom's new courses, Stone Eagle and Ballyneal.  #7 at Stone Eagle is a 220 yard drop shot.  It's a fine hole, but definitely not one of my favorite holes at the course.  #15 at Ballyneal is about 230 yards, slightly downhill,  to a natural depression inbetween the dunes. (punchbowl style).  It's a great hole, an absolute stunner.

[Brad Tufts]

Funny tidbit on #3 at Myopia learned while working there last year.....During the four-ball, they had the first ace there in 26 years.  A certain cantankerous member was standing on the fourth tee about 5 yards from the edge of the previous green addressing his tee shot.  

The ball went in and a cheer went up, and the member glanced up for a second without moving the rest of his body.  His reaction, when realizing what had just happened, was to look down, hit his ball, and get pissed as to the result of his shot without a word of the 255-yd hole-in-one that just happened 30 ft from him, the first in 26 years....

[Tony_Muldoon]

Berkshire Blue at 217 qualifies. First shot of the day it's very intimidating.  A large fall away to the right collected my weak slice the second time I played it.  The first time a tail wind and a perfectly struck shot carried the green, the tee 20’ below the back of it and ended up in someone's back garden a further 20’ down.

[John Kirk]

Good west coast long par threes include #3 at Pasatiempo, which is very difficult, and #5 at Pumpkin Ridge - Ghost Creek, a scenic 220 yarder to a very wide (45-50 yards), 11,000 square foot green.

[Ryan Farrow]

Brining back a thread from '99, that’s great. When you say 215 yards is this from the tips? I have a problem with any par three from the men’s tees where I need to hit wood (on a calm day). For most golfers this hole is unreachable. Is this something that can take away from the greatness of such a long one shot hole? And how do these holes you mention take this into consideration with perhaps a large opening to run a tee shot onto the green?

[wsmorrison]

Some long par 3s by Flynn:

15th at Philadelphia Country Club:  225 and seriously uphill
10th at Rolling Green:  designed at 260, built at 243 uphill
3rd at Mill Road Farm:  218
13th at Mill Road Farm:  237
3rd at Lehigh CC:  226
2nd at Shinnecock Hills:  221
13th at Manufacturers:  233
11th at Kittansett:  241
9th at Eagles Mere:  220
14th at TCC Pepper Pike:  215
8th at Cherry Hills:  220
15th at Cascades:  originally 252, now 222
2nd at Boca Raton South:  217 into the wind
3rd at Huntingdon Valley:  218

Long par 3s were a staple in Flynn's design process.  Like Crump and Wilson, Flynn believed in testing the player with a full wood shot into a par 3.  

[Tom_Doak]

Mark:

The 4th at Sebonack is a brute, and the 6th at Cape Kidnappers can be when the wind is up.  The 4th and 16th at St. Andrews Beach both have their supporters (and detractors as well -- see the St. Andrews Beach threads -- the feedback there is very typical of what you hear about long par-3's).

The 13th at Rock Creek might be in the first rank of holes -- there's a huge dip between tee and green and a huge drop to the left, a bit like a reverse version of Calamity!

[Paul_Turner]

Of course the Brits still rule!  But the best one isn't the Addington's 13th or the 6th at West Sussex... it's the 1st at Meyrick Park.  A humble heath type muni in Bournemouth.

240 yards



As it was:


Furthermore old Meyrick Park has another epic 240 yarder in its 4th hole.  

[Gerry B]

off the top of my head my north american list would include:

5 at fishers - perhaps my fave along with:

16 at Cypress point

5 at Pine Valley

17 at Merion  -agree with Tom Doak - could never understand why this hole is not more revered - i suspect it gets penalized for being sandwiched between those 2 gems

3 at Myopia - a beauty - I  agree with the previous posters -this course should be ranked much higher than it is - not quite NGLA imho -but one of my favorite places to play  

7 at Chicago - card says 211 but assume a back pin and it qualifies - a redan for the ages imho - 3 is also really good but not as good

16 at Beacon Hall in Toronto

9 at yale - however front pin would not qualify

10 at Bel Air

2 at Scarboro in Toronto and 14 is really good as well

4 at Riviera

15 at Philly Country Club

4 at San Francisco Golf Club

9 at St. Thomas near London Ontario - maybe the most underrated course in Canada IMHO -

2nd at Shinnecock

16 at Olympia Fields North -an integtal part of a great stretch of holes on the back nine

[Scott_Burroughs]

Mark,

I've played two of Tom's new courses, Stone Eagle and Ballyneal.  

I've never played a better course than Pacific Dunes.  

John,

Do I see a contradiction here?  




Besides some of the usual suspects above, I'll throw in #13 at Sand Hills, the hardest hole on the course (from the tips).

A few others:

#6 at Fenway

#11 at Mark Twain (Elmira, NY, Ross), one of the most steeply pitched greens I've ever played, and it's on a 225-yard, uphill par 3.

#4 at Hidden Creek

#12 at Ridgecrest (Nampa, ID, Harbottle) is a fun drop shot off a cliff to a green next to a pond

#10 at Forest Creek (South)

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