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Eric Pevoto

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"Golf carts are one sweet ride" says Johnny Miller
« on: February 05, 2004, 07:24:43 PM »
From Johnny Miller Talks Golf in the March Golf Digest:

"The next time some purist tells me that golf carts are 'ruining the game,' I'm telling that person to take a hike.  I like carts.  I like the way you can load an extra sweater, some snacks, your camera and whatever else and bring it along with no effort.  It's almost like a picnic. (my emphasis)  You're closer to ther person you're playing with.  You do (author's emphasis) get exercise, because there's more walking than you think.  Carts are fun to drive--if they had them at a theme park, they would charge people to drive them."

Did Johnny forget the smiley face emoticon?

He follows that up with "Tree+Fairway=Terrible hole design," a critique of the 10th at Spyglass Hill.  He sums it up with, "The green can be protected by as much water and sand as the designer wants, but the fairway should be devoid of trouble."    ::)
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There's no home cooking these days.  It's all microwave.Bill Kittleman

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Eric Pevoto

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Re:"Golf carts are one sweet ride" says Johnny Miller
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2004, 07:33:37 PM »
With all the talk about the future of golf, I thought a little balance (fodder) might be in order.  He can't be serious? Can he?
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There's no home cooking these days.  It's all microwave.Bill Kittleman

Golf doesn't work for those that don't know what golf can be...Mike Nuzzo

Kevin_Reilly

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Re:"Golf carts are one sweet ride" says Johnny Miller
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2004, 07:35:33 PM »
Does Johnny know that most golf bags now come with compartments, some that are even big enough to fit sweaters, snacks and cameras?  Unless he needs multiple clothing changes, a sit-down meal, and a tripod.
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"GOLF COURSES SHOULD BE ENJOYED RATHER THAN RATED" - Tom Watson

Eric Pevoto

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Re:"Golf carts are one sweet ride" says Johnny Miller
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2004, 07:41:32 PM »
I've heard he carries a tablecloth and place settings for four for mid-round meals.  Perhaps that takes up too much room in his mondo, tour-sized Callaway bag.

The thought of anyone agreeing with that filth-flarn-filth makes my head hurt!
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There's no home cooking these days.  It's all microwave.Bill Kittleman

Golf doesn't work for those that don't know what golf can be...Mike Nuzzo

Jeff Fortson

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Re:"Golf carts are one sweet ride" says Johnny Miller
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2004, 07:45:46 PM »
In general, I have liked Johnny Miller as a commentator and golf analyst.  Lord knows he could play the game.  This statement, however, is repulsive to me.  I'm not 100% against the use of all carts but this bit he wrote makes me wonder if there is going to be some sort of Johnny Miller signature golf cart from EZGO.  

No one's perfect.


Jeff F.
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Carlyle Rood

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Re:"Golf carts are one sweet ride" says Johnny Miller
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2004, 08:12:11 PM »
We're fortunate to have caddies available where I play.  I employ them regularly.  I would estimate that I play 50% of my golf with a caddy.

But carts are excellent, as well.  Weather permitting (i.e., without cart-path only), we can play more quickly in a cart.  It's less expensive.  And I prefer carts to carrying my own bag when a caddy isn't available.

Carts often have coolers.  Storing a beer in a cooler is more effective than storage within a caddy!  Storage in the latter case also affects the performance of said caddy.   ;D

Carts also allow some elderly friends to play where they otherwise couldn't.  Atlanta Country Club has a few difficult climbs.  It's very difficult for them to walk it.

And I'll agree with Johnny Miller on one point, in particular.  You do get quite a bit of exercise in cart.  If it's cart-paths only, then you're nearly walking as much.
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Mike_Trenham

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Re:"Golf carts are one sweet ride" says Johnny Miller
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2004, 10:07:53 PM »
Maybe Azinger was right when he called Miller "world's biggest moron" or was it "world's biggest Mormon" in 1991.  

I have always been a fan of Miller.  I remember when he was washed-up in 1987 and won a pebble, hard to belive he would do it again years later.

But Johnny carts are anti social!  He must have played too many tour rounds in twosomes.  There is nothing more social then a foursome walking.  In my group we needle each other from green to tee, and then converse about global, office and club politics from our tee shots until we reach our next shot.  Then it is game on.  If I had to ride a cart I would find a new way to spend my free time.
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Scott_Burroughs

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Re:"Golf carts are one sweet ride" says Johnny Miller
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2004, 11:47:05 PM »
"I like the way you can load an extra sweater, some snacks, your camera and whatever else and bring it along with no effort"

When was the last time he actually had to carry all that extra stuff himself anyways?  Obviously there's a reason Tour bags are so huge, to hold stuff.

Trolleys are also a good way to hold extra weight and not be burdened.

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Dan Herrmann

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Re:"Golf carts are one sweet ride" says Johnny Miller
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2004, 09:49:25 AM »
He's got to be facetious, doesn't he?

I remember when Johnny was watching one of his sons at the USGA Junior back at Waverley CC in Portland, Oregon.  I was so impressed at how he talked with his son's fellow competitors, and how he raked up a trap for one of them.  
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THuckaby2

Re:"Golf carts are one sweet ride" says Johnny Miller
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2004, 10:40:33 AM »
shivas is right on about Olympic Club - that is one of the many things that makes that such a cool place.  The bars don't hurt either.  The Lake course sure used to be too wet, too long, too constricted though.   ;D

But ok, I read Johnny's quote and I find myself agreeing!   Hey, I do prefer to walk, I play better that way and I enjoy the flow of the game a lot more that way.  But all the things he says about carts are right...  There's a time and a place for everything - I sure don't want ALL OF MY GOLF to be like that.. but dammit, at certain times and certain places, he's right... it is nice to have a place to put all of the extra stuff... it is nice to have the break on one's tired bones....it can be a picnic, and dammit, so long as you're not slowing up pace of play, just what's wrong with that?... and you know what?  They ARE fun to drive... take a kid to a course and what's the first thing they want to do?

Johnny just rose in my estimation, and I wasn't all that big of a fan before.

TH

« Last Edit: February 06, 2004, 10:42:17 AM by Tom Huckaby »
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SteveC

Re:"Golf carts are one sweet ride" says Johnny Miller
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2004, 10:59:26 AM »
I'm with Huckaby. Carts have their place, so does walking. I like both, just not at the same time. Walking with my 11-yr-old daughter doesn't qualify as fun just yet. For a few holes, yes, but not a full round.

Why have trolleys never caught on with the masses over here? There's no shame in using them in Scotland.
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THuckaby2

Re:"Golf carts are one sweet ride" says Johnny Miller
« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2004, 11:02:32 AM »
Steve- re trolleys, well... it is getting more common and accepted, but you're right, it's far from the UK still.  Some great resorts (like Bandon Dunes) have them now, and you are seeing them more anyway.  Man that is a great way to play also..

TH
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Eric Pevoto

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Re:"Golf carts are one sweet ride" says Johnny Miller
« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2004, 11:03:39 AM »
The impression of Johnny Miller as the steely, very-fit player he was in the early 1970's is what makes the quote ridiculous.  

He could flat out play, no question there.  His commentary is usually entertaining, though I think his thoughts on the golf swing and technique are often questionable.  That's not unusual though with someone of his talent; it's "golf according to Johnny" rather than truly sound technique.  What works for him probably won't fit the masses.

But at the root of this, does he sound like someone who believes golf is a sport?  
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There's no home cooking these days.  It's all microwave.Bill Kittleman

Golf doesn't work for those that don't know what golf can be...Mike Nuzzo

JohnV

Re:"Golf carts are one sweet ride" says Johnny Miller
« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2004, 11:07:38 AM »
Quote from: SteveC on February 06, 2004, 10:59:26 AM
Why have trolleys never caught on with the masses over here? There's no shame in using them in Scotland.

I think that trolleys have caught on with the masses, which is why they have never caught on with the elite (at least on the East Coast.)  I think that the elite clubs don't allow them because they are perceived as lower class (read public golf).

On the west coast it is less of an issue.

Also, to give them their due, a lot of these same clubs are trying to keep a caddie program alive so they deserve credit for that, but if they allow carts, they should allow pull carts.
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THuckaby2

Re:"Golf carts are one sweet ride" says Johnny Miller
« Reply #14 on: February 06, 2004, 11:12:04 AM »
Eric:

Miller is not the thin early 20s stud who won at Oakmont.  Lot of us also cast huge shadows on our younger selves...

What's wrong with dealing with one's current reality?  Apparently Johnny has bad knees or something, and thus likely enjoys the game more when there's less pain.  This is wrong?

And also, what does it matter if anyone thinks golf is a sport?  If you play it, you know what it is.  The rest is all just words...

I'm not trying to be argumentative, just trying to understand your point.

TH
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SteveC

Re:"Golf carts are one sweet ride" says Johnny Miller
« Reply #15 on: February 06, 2004, 11:32:20 AM »
PS - Ran into Miller one day at Riviera several years ago. He had plenty to do besides talk to me, but he came up to me and chatted me up for 10 minutes, asking about my game and my clubs. There wasn't another soul around other than a few caddies - he was just being nice, and I appreciated that.

Even if he's occasionally off the wall, I like his candor and I like the man.
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George Pazin

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Re:"Golf carts are one sweet ride" says Johnny Miller
« Reply #16 on: February 06, 2004, 11:41:27 AM »
As I've been exposed to more folks, I've come to realize that an abundance of intelligence often manifests itself through eccentricity. My Dad is living proof of that - maybe Johnny is, too. A lot of people are also geniuses at one thing but practically morons at most other things.

Johnny is definitely living proof that you can be a helluva player without necessarily knowing much about teaching or design. His "fairways devoid of trouble" quote bothers me more than the cart thing. I'd agree with fairways devoid of trees, but devoid of trouble sounds like a prescription for boring.

Seems like someone I'd want to chat with, but not necessarily adhere to everything he said.
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Carlyle Rood

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Re:"Golf carts are one sweet ride" says Johnny Miller
« Reply #17 on: February 06, 2004, 11:46:00 AM »
Carts are also great when things are VERY slow--simply because they provide a nice place to sit in the shade.

They're also very helpful on many modern residential golf courses because architects are putting too much space between the green and the next tee.  You end up walking two courses: the one you're playing, and the one in between holes.

Pull carts are forbidden at my home course in Atlanta.  To be perfectly honest, I'd never even used one until my second round at Pasatiempo.  I wasn't even sure whether to push it or pull it.  (I'm still not.)

I do like how most bags seem to kick into a tripod now, though.  I remember as a kid how wet the bag would get from the dew.  You don't have people dropping their bags on the turf anymore either, particularly around the greens.

My preferences, in order:

1. Caddie
2. Cart
3. Carry
4. Pull-cart (Push-cart?)
5. Practice Tee
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Evan Fleisher

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Re:"Golf carts are one sweet ride" says Johnny Miller
« Reply #18 on: February 06, 2004, 11:57:26 AM »
Agree with Redanman about the issues of walking and playing with riders...can be tough.  I too am more fond of one-some two-some and three-some rounds.
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Born Rochester, MN. Grew up Miami, FL. Live Cleveland, OH. Handicap 13.2. Have 26 & 23 year old girls and wife of 29 years. I'm a Senior Supply Chain Business Analyst for Vitamix. Diehard walker, but tolerate cart riders! Love to travel, always have my sticks with me. Mollydooker for life!

Mike Benham

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Re:"Golf carts are one sweet ride" says Johnny Miller
« Reply #19 on: February 06, 2004, 12:23:35 PM »
Quote from: Eric Pevoto on February 05, 2004, 07:24:43 PM
From Johnny Miller Talks Golf in the March Golf Digest:

"The next time some purist tells me that golf carts are 'ruining the game,' I'm telling that person to take a hike.  I like carts.  I like the way you can load an extra sweater, some snacks, your camera and whatever else and bring it along with no effort.  It's almost like a picnic. (my emphasis)  You're closer to ther person you're playing with.  You do (author's emphasis) get exercise, because there's more walking than you think.  Carts are fun to drive--if they had them at a theme park, they would charge people to drive them."

I find the statement "that you can load an extra sweater, some snacks, a camera ..."  ... problematic ...

The last piece of advice we should be taking seriously from professionals is on cart and golf bag etiquette.  These guys haven't carried their own bags in years so to encourage people to pack the carts with extra stuff is laughable.

And yes, this brings back the Casey Martin saga, where I lost respect for many of my favorites, Tom Watson being one, who said that riding in a cart was not golf and the rider got an unfair advantage.  I contend that pro's having a caddy carry their big bags, read their putts, choose their clubs, clean their balls, etc. is not golf either.




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"... and I liked the guy ..."

Joel_Stewart

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Re:"Golf carts are one sweet ride" says Johnny Miller
« Reply #20 on: February 06, 2004, 12:47:11 PM »
I think many people would be surprised at how many tour players ride when not in a tournament, especially in Florida.  I know Lee Janzen is a devout rider.

The one time I played Lake Nona, home to many tour players I noticed nobody walked.  Do they ride at Isleworth?
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THuckaby2

Re:"Golf carts are one sweet ride" says Johnny Miller
« Reply #21 on: February 06, 2004, 12:56:15 PM »
I can see that the principles behind WHO SAID IT and WHY are not good. Mike Benham makes very good points.

But the statements themselves are just plain correct....

TH
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Mike Benham

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Re:"Golf carts are one sweet ride" says Johnny Miller
« Reply #22 on: February 06, 2004, 01:01:42 PM »
Quote from: Tom Huckaby on February 06, 2004, 12:56:15 PM
I can see that the principles behind WHO SAID IT and WHY are not good. Mike Benham makes very good points.

But the statements themselves are just plain correct....

TH

Which statements are you referring to?
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"... and I liked the guy ..."

Bill Weber

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Re:"Golf carts are one sweet ride" says Johnny Miller
« Reply #23 on: February 06, 2004, 01:06:13 PM »
Maybe a thread should be started "How Old Are You Guy's". I don't know if I am the oldest of the semi-lurking guys who love this site but believe me the aches and pains are directly proportional to the number of years over 50.
I would love to still play 36 a day but even with a cart it is only possible in perfect weather and temperature.
Getting back to Johnny has anyone here watched him walk? It appears that he has some kind of serious problem with knees, hips, or something which I would guess keeps him off the senior tour if not as much as his putting, then at least it's somewhere in the mix.
I'll put my two cents worth in about his demeanor, that I found to be one of listening patiently, making well thoughtout comments (well most of the time ;)) and just enjoying being around other golfers and/or car enthusiasts.
Johnny would be in my dream foursome along with Bobby Jones and Arnold of course.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2004, 01:10:32 PM by w weber »
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THuckaby2

Re:"Golf carts are one sweet ride" says Johnny Miller
« Reply #24 on: February 06, 2004, 01:07:26 PM »
I find every word of this to be correct:

"I like carts.  I like the way you can load an extra sweater, some snacks, your camera and whatever else and bring it along with no effort.  It's almost like a picnic. (my emphasis)  You're closer to ther person you're playing with.  You do (author's emphasis) get exercise, because there's more walking than you think.  Carts are fun to drive--if they had them at a theme park, they would charge people to drive them."

with the caveats I gave in my first post...

I deliberately left off the part about ruining the game.  Perhaps they are, I can't figure that out, don't know for sure.  But the rest seems simple and correct to me.

TH
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