Ouch.  The pain.  This hurts.  

So you didn't dig #11, eh?  I can definitely live with anyone saying 2, 10, 14 and 16 are better two shotters... that's also arguable but those are all great golf holes... But disappointed by 11?  Was the disappointment because it didn't stand up to these others, or was it disappointment in general?  Please tell me it's not the latter... because when I pull into that parking lot, the holes I am looking forward to playing kinda go in this order:

11-16-everything else.  Maybe it's the challenge involved, in that I don't think I've ever made a three on either of them (and this is a reason I hate/despise/envy JakaB, who did so on 11 on his very first try, the smooth-swinging bastard.)

 

As for me, fortunately I had no disappointment, even throughout Scotland.  OK, maybe THE REDAN at NB West links continues to disappoint, only because the one at NGLA to me is so clearly better than the original... but I had seen it before, so my disappointment didn't occur this year.

TH

I can understand Mike's disappointment.

If we review the proceeding 10 holes at Pasa, 11 doesn't fit into the style.  The fairway and green are unlike any other on the course, in fact, I could make the argument that it looks like the hole was rerouted when the club sold the property at the end of the fairway, probably during the mid-60s    

Mike H,

#11 at Pasa was not MacKenzie's favorite, #16 was.  And I agree with Shivas, I think #16 is overrated, although I didn't play it this year.  That same 3-tier green complex, seen on any number of Graves or Robinson designs would get slammed.

Mike:

So is uncertainty about how to play a hole the be all and end all determiner of greatness?  It's one factor me, just not the ONLY factor.

I too don't know the best way to play THE REDAN at NB, but I also know that it's not as much fun to play then other Redans because it's blind, and because that second mound/ridge short of the green prevents the fun running shot we all really want to play.  At NGLA, the running shot is very possible, plus one can see the results, which on a great hole like this to me is more fun (ie, this isn't a comment on blindness in general, I dig that - just not on a hole where seeing the run is part of the fun).

TH

ps - damn right I looked at it walking by, both times... in fact delaying my partners both times as I dilly-dallied staring at it.  

Of course it might be in general, but seeing it played y a certain someone slipping into the famed yellow cardigan JUST to play THIS hole might make it the #1 fave of any year....

I too find the hole to be kinda disappointing, though I too have not played it in 2003. Given the history and lore, you just expect a little more.  It's a tough hole, it is just very flat and you always seem to be playing it into the sun...

TH

Mike:

So is uncertainty about how to play a hole the be all and end all determiner of greatness?  It's one factor me, just not the ONLY factor.

I too don't know the best way to play THE REDAN at NB, but I also know that it's not as much fun to play then other Redans because it's blind, and because that second mound/ridge short of the green prevents the fun running shot we all really want to play.  

Thomas,  

Uncertainty is a heckuva lot better criteria (criterium?) than fun

Mike

Although I had seen it before, I was once again impressed by the sheer suckiness of the 18th at Yale. I know there are some people out there who love this hole, so I've thought that perhaps it is an acquired taste. Unfortunately, it always hits me as a rather half-assed attempt at getting the golfer back to the clubhouse. On a course that ranks as one of my all-time favorites, this has got to be one of the worst finishing holes I've ever seen. Someone who had never played the course before would have no idea what they were looking at from the tee. Please, anybody, sneek onto the course at night with a backhoe and level that god-awful mound that creates a blind second shot. Of course, I've never played the hole well, so that might be influencing my opinion, but it is such a downer after an otherwise spectacular layout.

shivas:  that is such a great story, I have often wondered how we could get it on here, in the right context.  This is a happy day!  

I thought of another disappointing reknowned hole I saw this year:  postage stamp at Troon.  Oh, it's a wee beastie of a hole, especially with the wind howling at it was this summer for me...The green is just not THAT small... As much as I was impressed and enlightened by the rest of that course, I was disappointed by seeing postage stamp again.  Perhaps expectations have a lot to do with this?  I had built it up in my mind as the greatest short par 3 on earth...

TH

Don't know if this hole is "renowned" or not, but I've read a lot of discussion in this DG about #12 at Rustic Canyon, and so I was looking forward to playing the hole. While it is a good hole, I must say that I was a little disappointed by it, although I liked the green complex. Just a little too dull off the tee, in my opinion (which also could be said for several other holes at RC).

I liked holes 2,3,6-8, and 13-17 more than 12.

#1 at Machrihanish the first time you play it. All that room to the right and the green within reach with a bail out , even for a medium length hitter without warmups.

Once you get ranged in; however,

I have to agree with Mike........the 17th hole at Peeble is not up to par.  It was a let down and even lessend the entire experience for me.  I guess that I was expecting more........you know, what with all the hype (the high expense of the green fee) and the history.

A Clayman,

I agree, anyone knocking the 17th at Pebble Beach has had too much of the spiked egg nog.

It is a wonderful golf hole, great green, great surroundings, wind, it's location in the routing and play of the golf course.

Someone, please, anyone, flag those guys, no more egg nog  

Some people have to see a hole dozens of time in order to recognize the value of its architecture and playability.

Take TEPaul for instance.
Just to give you an idea of his inability to recognize greatness,
let me cite this example.

I took him duck hunting last fall.
I told TE that my dog was the best retriever in the east, maybe even the world.
As some ducks flew over we fired, hitting one.
After the duck splashed down,
I gave my dog the whistle command signal to retrieve.
The dog WALKED ON THE WATER and retrieved the duck.
When the dog came back to the blind with the duck,
TE looked and me and said,
"If you think your dog is a great retriever, you're wrong,
that damn dog can't even swim"

Some people just don't get it, the first time or the hundreth time.

B Katona,

Did you play # 18 at Yale from all the way back ?
From the tee up on the hill in the woods ?
The tee from which you can try to bite of the right side slope and need to crank it ?