Had the opportunity to play for the second time Apache Stronghold and I'm happy to report the conditioning issues are on the mend and seem to be headed in the right direction.

I have always liked Apache Stronghold because it doesn't follow the motif of so many courses you play in Maricopa County. The course is blessed with being situated away from all the commotion and crowds and when you venture onto the course it's great to hear nothing but the wind blowing through the site. You also have solid routing plan that takes advantage of all the uniqueness of the site. Predictability is rarely on the menu card when you play AS.

I played AS the first spring after it opened and the turf conditions had not disintegrated at that time.

Since my first visit I was determined to return and see what progress, if any, had been made. On that front things are clearly improving.

The fairways are now bermuda and although they are dormant brown they are full in nearly every fairway. In my conversation with the new superintendent -- Ron Mahaffey -- he expressed the fairways will eventually comprise bermuda and bent grasses and eventually be reduced in cuts from the existing 9/16th's to 3/8's sometime next year. The ultimate aim -- crop the fairways really tight to maximize the ground game when playing. Rough areas has also been added and clearly will influence play.

A number of tees and are also going through correction. Among the examples include the championship tee at #14 and #16 -- plus a few others in different positions. There is also work being done make sure that irrigation is put in the proper locations to make sure that the course doesn't have the kind of wet turf / dry turf issues that have happened previously.

All in all, there is a game plan at AS and if things are allowed to continue with Ron at the helm it seems likely AS will emerge even stronger than before.

My only issue with the course rests with the differences between the front and back nines. After playing the course again I just believe the front is the weaker of the two because it has more pedestrian holes. After you play the superb long par-3 3rd -- you then have the par-4 4th which is simply average in it requirements. The short par-4 6th is also fairly tame because it doesn't tighten up so much near the green and simply allows the longer player to hit driver with little to fear. The par-5 8th is also a fairly predictable hole and is not demanding enough for those who fail to execute. There are obviously strong holes on the front with the long par-4 5th and par-4 9th along with the opener, the 2nd and the downhill 7th.

The back nine at AS is simply a big step up in demands from the tee shot at the 10th through to the 18th. You simply have to drive the ball in the correct spots for you to make headway with your approaches.

Ron indicated that additional work will be carried out at a few holes and if time permits I hope to return in about a year's time to see the results.

AS has had plenty of negative ink and clearly some of it was deserved. However, things are now moving in the RIGHT direction and the dynamic qualities of AS will only be better because of the approach being taken by the folks who are there now. I would just hasten to add this to those who read this -- AS is going through the process now -- don't expect miracles overnight -- but it's clear where they are headed and that's good news for a course that does offer so much.

P.S. It would be an interesting match play contest to compare the qualities of AS and The Rawls Course for those who have played both.  

Matt,

This is great news, though I played AS last April and didn't have the heartburn with conditioning others had. I do think Ron Mahaffey has the "right stuff" to make it work there--he's certainly got the genes, correct Don M? It'll be an even greater course when firm & fast.

A couple of questions/comments:

Where are the new championship tees on #14 and #16? I could see it re #16, but why on the Redan #14?  What other tees are "undergoing correction," and how?

Re the front side, I have to disagree with you re #4. I thought it was a very solid hole with a wonderful greensite in the saddle and some skyline effect. Our fearless leader Ran seems to agree:

From the AS Course Profile:

"4th hole, 400 yards: The authors' favorite hole, the fourth offers a fresh perspective from the tee: the farther you drive the ball, the more room you have. The bunker at the inside corner of this dog-leg left requires 235 yards to carry, but such a feat is most reasonable at this altitude. The approach is even more appealing, with its modest, sloping green nestled between two large hills and, for most approaches, the sky is the only backdrop. The effect is superb."

I also liked the driveable 6th more than you do, but hey neither the 4th nor the 6th is 450+ yards!   I'd agree with you about the 8th.

Anyway, such quibbles shouldn't detract from the good news you're imparting here. Glad to hear it.

Best,

Matt:

Glad to hear Apache is on the mend.

It really impressed me on my visit.  Too bad it sunk so low after that.

Matt,
Thanks for the report.
Ron and I have had many long talks about the challenges he has faced since taking the job at AS. I'll go out on a limb and say that there are very few supts. who have had to work under the conditions he has endured. Last time we talked he was upbeat about some of the leadership changes that had occurred with the tribe and he was optimistic that the course was "turning the corner" toward decent and sustainable turf conditions. I'm glad to see the course get some positive ink relating to conditioning, although Ron himself tells me it still has a long way to go. I know he has a good plan, and I think he will get the chance to see it implemented. The overseeding of the fwys with bermuda was something that should have been done a long time ago. In fact, I believe that was the original plan before all the "experts" got in the way, but enough of that. Given the opportunity Ron will get AS squared away. Believe me, he knows the gem he has been entrusted to care for.

I've played both AS and The Rawls course. The Rawls course is good, but AS is better, IMHO. AS just has a rugged natural beauty and a setting that can't be matched in Lubbock. At TT I felt like I was playing chess with the architect. Very strategic as you would expect given Doak had a blank canvas. At AS the holes fit so naturally with the surroundings and the greens, although not as severe as TT, are pure genius.
Matt, you didn't think the 2nd or the 5th offered a challenge?
The 4th might be tame, but I love that approach.  

As an FYI -- here are the green feeand cart rates for AS ...

Oct '03 thru Jan '04 -- $50
Feb '04 thru April '04 -- $65
May 2004 -- $50
June '04 thru Sept '04 -- $45

Walking rate is $10 less tha posted rate
Guests of R.V. Park $10 less than posted rate

AS golf package effective Nov 1, 2003

Includes green fees, cart fee, room, token for range balls, sleeve of premium golf balls, welcome drink and buffet dinner

weekday and weekend rates (based on double occupancy)
Nov '03 thru April '04 -- $89
May '04 thru Sept '04 -- $79
Day of arrival golf rate is $10 less than posted rate

*Truly a good deal for those inclined to venture beyond the standard golf offerings you find in Maricopa County!

The irony is that people pay that low a green fee and expect grass on the fairways?
 

Gents:

Please don't mind me but the 6th is really a short par-4 that does little to keep the longer hitter in check. The drive zone stays w-i-d-e all the way thru to the green. How bout some bunker or some other element to keep the hole from being just a big blast from the tee.

Like I said I truly enjoy AS and believe that Don Mahaffey is correct -- the demandsand terrain at AS are a bit better than what you find at Texas Tech -- but the differences are not as as wide as many might expect. Given the natural land you find at AS I'd probably opt in its favor.

Thomas,
Why isn't it a championship layout? Is it because you think it's too easy?
Might surprise you that when the AZ golf Assoc. held qualifying events at AS the scores where very high. A couple of years ago they held the pub links qualifier, 100 guys for 2 spots....(remember the national champ came out of AZ)...what do you think qualified?

I don't believe AS plays weak -- contrary to what Thomas says -- sorry good buddy!

There's plenty of wind that can whip through the site so oncertain days a few of the holes will turn a bit more demanding. The very first time I played #18 I smashed a drive and ended up immediately next to the mesquite tree that is directly opposite the green. On my just concluded visit I also smashed a tee shot but this time I was most fortunate to get the ball to within 125 yards because of the wind coming from the east. Clearly, there are days at the site when the wind can really dictate strategic changes when playing any hole.

Thomas -- I'm still unconvinced with what you say about the 6th. The hole doesn't add ANY strategic element for a short par-4 and in my mind that's something of a must. The width of the fairway simply p-e-r-m-i-t-s the big bomb from the tee with little real penalty -- unless one were to snap it off and end up way left.

What's amazing in my mind is that the front side is a par-37 with two par-5's but only one par-3 yet it plays a bit softer when compared to the back nine IMHO.

Don -- if you have any scores from the event you mentioned I'd like you to post them if you can remember. Thanks ...

P.S. I didn't mention this but I'm glad the future game plan at AS will include wider fairways to bring into play more and mroe of the bunkers that dot the landscape. Soemtimes when rough is permitted to go it simply prevents balls from reaching those locations -- e.g. the 1st hole and the fairway bunker that cuts in from the left.

Matt:

Don't you enjoy it when I PERMIT the big bomb off the tee every once in a while?  Other people do.  I cannot stress this enough ... my purpose in designing a golf course is not to test your tee shot on every single hole.

I'm also convinced that giving you a free pass once in a while will cause you to hit a sloppy drive and then you'll find the hole not as easy as you thought.  So have you made any twos at the sixth yet?

And if so, did you at least enjoy them?

That darn Forrest Richardson was with me on my one and only 84. Which I considered to be a pretty good score for me on a virgin run. Of course I blamed it on the quality of Forrest's company for me golfing well, but the next time I go,  I will be sure to challenge more of the features. We did ride in the heat but there did seem to be a couple of long walks to tee's. Opposed to the great routing at TRC. Understandable considering the construction methods.

Tommy N - I was the one defending the 6th.
But, I wouldn't compare it to the 10th at TOC.
Sorry, but I'll agree w/ Matt somewhat - TOC 10th is a better hole due to the fairway bunkers that come into play and make it more of a risk/reward scenario.  Plus, I can't imagine drawing any desert course in comparison to a links course. -I'm a close minded links biased devotee.
But, I consider TOC 10th a par 4.
AS 6 is more of a 3 1/2 to me.

Don_Mahaffey - Interesting data.  For a tournament, AS could have some really, really fun hole locations - #13, #14, #15.

I don't like hot weather, so I would have shot a million trying to qualify to the US Pub Links that time of year.  I don't think it's a championship layout due to the club variety on the par 4's.  See my post in November, but I would qualify a course as championship where at least one or two par 4's really make you hit 2 full shots.
e.g. #2, #12, #18 Riviera
#7, #12 Torrey Pines
#9, #10 Pebble Beach
#15 Bethpage

Additionally, look at #18 - From the tips, I would guess the principal's nose bunker would be total obsolence to 70% of the PGA Tour(ie. what is the carry - 270?).  IMHO - Those type of arch. features are risky to the long term success of a design.

I'm not saying I'd do that well on AS on all days, but consider this.  When I go watch Corey Pavin or Mike Reid play, I like to see them suffer on some of the par 4's.  Of course, that's what made Corey's heroics at Shinn. #18 and Oak Hill #18 so memorable.

Tom Doak - I did like some of the wideness and options - like #10.

In conclusion - a fun, good golf course.
Just don't send Mickelson out there.

I find some of the threads here where posters start talking about how long they are to be very humorous. What is AS from the tips, 7400? Overeed that baby with rye and keep it wet and it'll seem long. I guarantee you there are not a lot of courses in AZ that are longer on the card, but may play longer because of the conditions.
We have a Division II college golf team that plays at my course. The coach and I have become good friends, in fact he works on maintenance staff during the summer. If you want to get him going all you have to do is start talking about length. He gets so upset when his players say things like, "I shot 77 but man I killed that drive on 18" He's pretty much trained them that the only thing he wants to hear is score, not that you hit driver wedge on a 450 yard par 4. What did you shoot?
So along those lines, and remember your under oath , Thomas how many under where you at AS? Not how far did you hit it, but what did you shoot on this unchallenging, non-championship course?