News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
From today's Arizona Republic:
www.azcentral.com/sports/golf/1204biltmoregolf1204.html

What's old is new
Biltmore course design returns to roots

Bob Young
The Arizona Republic
Dec. 4, 2003 12:00 AM


Not everybody was happy when a long-running controversy over the development of luxury townhomes and condominiums next to the Arizona Biltmore's Adobe Golf Course was settled.

It meant reconfiguring part of the course to accommodate the development. Larry Landry, the former president of the Arizona Biltmore Estates Village Association that fought the plan, said the course would be "a shadow of its former self."

 

Biltmore Adobe makeover

A hole-by-hole look at the changes:

No. 1 - Flip-flopped with 18th.
No. 2 - Similar, but new tees.
No. 3 - New alignment to the same green.
No. 4-7 - Same, but with bunker improvements.
No. 8 - Changed from par 4 to par 5.
No. 9 - New bunkering.
No. 10 - Already open; new tees and bunkers.
No. 11-13 - Same, with new bunkering.
No. 14 - Par 5 fortified with bunkering.
No. 15 - Dogleg right to old No. 16 green.
No. 16 - New par 3.
No. 17 - New risk-reward short par 4, similar to 17th at TPC of Scottsdale.
No. 18 - New green, with pond guarding one side.
No. 19 - New 75-yard bonus hole to settle wagers or for practice.

 
As it turns out, that might be true - but probably not in the way Landry intended.

Forrest Richardson, a Valley-based golf course architect, was enlisted by the Kabuto Corporation that owns the Adobe and its sister 18-hole Links layout to reconfigure part of the course.

But Richardson also will renovate the Adobe. His plan, which already is beginning to unfold, is to bring the look and feel of William P. "Billy" Bell's original 1928 design out of the shadows.

"The course is not only being given new life, but to me it's being given what's most appropriate and that is something that truly pays homage to its roots," Richardson said.

"So many times we see older golf courses remodeled, and they become sort of like every other golf course - waterfalls and rocks, little bumps and mounds all over the place. I was very happy that Kabuto understood the great legacy here and the story that needed to be retold.

"That's what this amounts to. We're not trying to do things that golf course architects do in 2003. We're trying to do things that would be indicative of what was done when this course was first built."

The first phase is nearly complete. The 10th hole has been reconfigured and is open for play. A 19th "bonus" hole, typical of early designs for settling bets, has been added and doubles as a practice area near the range.

The second phase, which will include flip-flopping the first and 18th holes, adding a pond next to 18, building a new 17th, fortifying the par-5 14th, moving a water hazard at No. 3 closer to the green and building a new par-3 16th, will be completed in about a year.

Bell, who helped architect George Thomas on such designs as Riviera Country Club and Bel-Air Country Club in Los Angeles, is best known for his unique bunkering.

They usually have "fingers" or peninsulas of turf jutting into the bunkers, with irregular, fluffy turf at the edges rather than the neatly trimmed style common today.

Richardson searched for aerial photographs that show some of the original bunkers. The fingers, now gone, are there in the grainy black-and-white images.

Richardson also brought in Tommy Naccrato, a California-based "forensic" golf course architect who is regarded as an expert on Bell and his courses.

"A lot of the courses are like cold-case files," Naccrato said. "Old bunkers are like a carcass, like a body left for dead. You can find the lines of the bunker, the sand is still underneath and course builders compact the material under the sand when they build the bunkers, and when you hit it, it's like a hard crust."

Naccrato has found such bunkers at the Biltmore, some of the cross bunkers in fairways that look like nothing more than gentle mounding. Richardson will bring some of these features back, along with the shape and contours of some greens.

He also plans to remove some bushes and trees that have been added through the years and restore the vegetation to something closer to Bell's original layout.

"What Forrest is doing is really in tune with the spirit of Billy Bell," Naccrato said. "It think it's something Billy would want."
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

A_Clay_Man

Re:Arizona Biltmore Restoration- Forrest Richardson/Tommy Naccarato
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2003, 07:48:22 AM »
Great! Of the many questions I have is "which cross bunkers and why not all?

I've golfed the Biltmore but only one of their courses. I think I missed the adobe even though  it was described to me by the cart kid there as 'Links' style. What's the other course? I loved the practice putting course that seemed to route within the grounds of the hotel.
Your in good company guys, keep it up.

« Last Edit: December 04, 2003, 05:51:51 PM by A_Clay_Man »

Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Arizona Biltmore Restoration- Forrest Richardson/Tommy Naccarato
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2003, 09:36:09 AM »
First, "Tony."

Now, "Naccrato."

Sheesh.
"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

Tiger_Bernhardt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Arizona Biltmore Restoration- Forrest Richardson/Tommy Naccarato
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2003, 10:03:53 AM »
I hope Forrest and the Emperer are able to follow their plan. sounds exciting. I cannot wait to see Tommy on Tommy review wise.

ForkaB

Re:Arizona Biltmore Restoration- Forrest Richardson/Tommy Naccarato
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2003, 10:31:43 AM »
All the very best to this audacious new partnership.  I suspect that Coore and Crenshaw are shaking in their boots!

THuckaby2

Re:Arizona Biltmore Restoration- Forrest Richardson/Tommy Naccarato
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2003, 10:35:55 AM »
"Tommy Naccrato, a California-based "forensic" golf course architect who is regarded as an expert on Bell and his courses."

Typo aside, here we thought for all this time Tommy was an electrician by trade.

Yahooooo!  Very cool.  The legend grows.   ;D ;D ;D

TH

Doug Wright

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Arizona Biltmore Restoration- Forrest Richardson/Tommy Naccarato
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2003, 11:17:19 AM »
I've played the Adobe course a couple times, and a more bland course would be hard to find. To me, it typified the term "resort course," and not in a good way. You really couldn't tell there was any magic (ie Billy Bell) lying underneath it all to restore!

Good luck Forrest and Tommy in what, like Butch and Sundance, could be "the beginning of a beautiful friendship..."
Twitter: @Deneuchre

ForkaB

Re:Arizona Biltmore Restoration- Forrest Richardson/Tommy Naccarato
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2003, 11:20:06 AM »
Doug

Er, I think that was Bogie and Claude Rains in "Casablanca"........

Good thought, though!

Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Arizona Biltmore Restoration- Forrest Richardson/Tommy Naccarato
« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2003, 11:23:09 AM »
Good luck Forrest and Tommy in what, like Butch and Sundance, could be "the beginning of a beautiful friendship..."

Who gets to play Katherine Ross?

Or was it Ingrid Bergman?
"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Arizona Biltmore Restoration- Forrest Richardson/Tommy Naccarato
« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2003, 11:29:54 AM »
Forrest: "You just keep looking, Tommy. That's what you're good at."

"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

Doug Wright

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Arizona Biltmore Restoration- Forrest Richardson/Tommy Naccarato
« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2003, 11:46:57 AM »
Er, I think that was Bogie and Claude Rains in "Casablanca"........
Good thought, though!

Rihc/Dan,

Uh, of course it was. Guess I was thinking of Katherine Ross, one of the first women I fell madly in love with via the Big Screen...

Do you think that after this Adobe project is done, the golf architecture world will be saying of Forrest and Tommy, "Who ARE those guys?"

Best,

Twitter: @Deneuchre

Scott_Burroughs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Arizona Biltmore Restoration- Forrest Richardson/Tommy Naccarato
« Reply #11 on: December 04, 2003, 11:53:22 AM »
They should have had the pic of Tommy like the one from "Links" in the emperor pose in a Billy Bell bunker at Willowick.

Caption:   "Ommmmm.  I am one with Billy Bell."

Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Arizona Biltmore Restoration- Forrest Richardson/Tommy Naccarato
« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2003, 12:00:44 PM »
Do you think that after this Adobe project is done, the golf architecture world will be saying of Forrest and Tommy, "Who ARE those guys?"

I prefer the image of a visiting architect hitting his ball into one of the newly excavated bunkers, walking up to the lip, peering down into it, and jumping in feet-first, hollering "Oh, shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit!"
"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

A_Clay_Man

Re:Arizona Biltmore Restoration- Forrest Richardson/Tommy Naccarato
« Reply #13 on: December 04, 2003, 12:03:46 PM »
Does anyone know where I get my hands on a copy of that specific "links" magazine? It would benefit others more than myself and I would be happy to tell 'why' but only in back channels.

Scott_Burroughs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Arizona Biltmore Restoration- Forrest Richardson/Tommy Naccarato
« Reply #14 on: December 04, 2003, 12:11:23 PM »
Adam,

It's the Nov/Dec 2001 issue.  The issue after that, Jan/Feb 2002, had a picture of Ran Morrissett talking to Tom Doak at the Bandon Lodge.  Neither article is available online.

Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Arizona Biltmore Restoration- Forrest Richardson/Tommy Naccarato
« Reply #15 on: December 04, 2003, 01:26:23 PM »
I'm getting a sneaking suspicion that there is No Foulpointe, No Forrest Richardson and NOTommy/Tony/Nacarato/Naccrato and that GCA exists within a snow globe much like St. Elsewhere.

Who has the rights to "Golf Architecture - CSI?"

Seriously, congrats to Tommy and Forrest.  Perhaps there's hope for me one day when the kids are grown and the mortgage burned.

Regards,

Mike
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Arizona Biltmore Restoration- Forrest Richardson/Tommy Naccarato
« Reply #16 on: December 04, 2003, 01:46:32 PM »
What is happening to this world.  A highly skilled union electrician with a rather narrow, and some would say, anachronistic palate for golf courses is now not a mere golf course architect but a "forensic" specialist.  Don't believe it? It is there in black and white published for posterity.

Who knows, a young gca intern in 2050 may just pull this article up and switch the focus of his career.  Heck, maybe some day there will be a Naccrato Institute of Forensic Design, and a chair named in honor of the father of this discipline.

Or being that he's near the land of the beautiful, highly creative, ultra-smart, and "really good people" (Hollywood), a new TV show may be the the thing.  Imagine a CSI- Los Angeles with Dr. Naccrato playing the lead role, going after greedy, right-wing developers and designers (Fazio, Rees Jones, Damien P., Nicklaus, et. al.), probing the grounds with his staff, saving our hallowed courses from desecration, and putting the evil-doers away where they can do no harm.

All kidding aside, we all wish Tommy well on this new endeavor.  It is neat that someone with so much passion for gca will actually have the opportunity to express it on the ground.  I hope that Tommy and Forrest will keep us informed on this project.

Scott_Burroughs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Arizona Biltmore Restoration- Forrest Richardson/Tommy Naccarato
« Reply #17 on: December 04, 2003, 01:56:46 PM »
Lou,

You forgot Ted Robinson on that list - prime target.

He's not the first "non-architect, but architecture enthusiast/student" from this board to dabble in the field.  Geoff Shackelford at Rustic Canyon and Gib P. with Neal Meagher at a course in NorCal.  What is it about California?   8)

Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Arizona Biltmore Restoration- Forrest Richardson/Tommy Naccarato
« Reply #18 on: December 04, 2003, 02:01:06 PM »
What is it about California?   8)

Can Governor Naccrato be far behind?
"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

A_Clay_Man

Re:Arizona Biltmore Restoration- Forrest Richardson/Tommy Naccarato
« Reply #19 on: December 04, 2003, 02:46:42 PM »
California needs it more than the east coast.

moth

Re:Arizona Biltmore Restoration- Forrest Richardson/Tommy Naccarato
« Reply #20 on: December 04, 2003, 10:43:47 PM »
From the latest edition of the "Official Fishslappers Dictionary" comes the following definition.

naccrophelia (pro: nac.ro.fel.i.a)

Def: An obsessive love of classic old golf courses.

Symptoms:
a. reflex gagging upon sight of waterscape of other modern golf course window dressing
b. maniacal laughter and irrational exurberence (sp) upon passing entry gates of classic old courses
c. semi orgasmic sighing and moans while frolicking in famous old bunkers

Treatment:
No known cure or treatment. Doctors advise to ply patient with alcohol until symptoms fade and patient becomes incoherent.  ;)

Mike Benham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Arizona Biltmore Restoration- Forrest Richardson/Tommy Naccarato
« Reply #21 on: December 05, 2003, 12:12:36 AM »
Imagine a CSI- Los Angeles with Dr. Naccrato playing the lead role, going after greedy, right-wing developers and designers (Fazio, Rees Jones, Damien P., Nicklaus, et. al.)

Is this more of a Jack Klugman "Quincy" or Peter Falk "Columbo" character?

or James Garner in the "Rockford Files"?

or George Peppard in "Banacek"?
"... and I liked the guy ..."

Tommy_Naccarato

Re:Arizona Biltmore Restoration- Forrest Richardson/Tommy Naccarato
« Reply #22 on: December 05, 2003, 02:52:03 AM »
How about Jackie Gleason?

David Wigler

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Arizona Biltmore Restoration- Forrest Richardson/Tommy Naccarato
« Reply #23 on: December 05, 2003, 09:13:20 AM »
Tommy,

I will break my hiatus for this post.  Congratulations!!  I have no idea what a Forensic Architect means but I suspect that you do and it means that you are getting a chance to make money living out your dreams.  Nothing can be better.  You have earned it! Enjoy.  :) :) :)
And I took full blame then, and retain such now.  My utter ignorance in not trumpeting a course I have never seen remains inexcusable.
Tom Huckaby 2/24/04

Tommy_Naccarato

Re:Arizona Biltmore Restoration- Forrest Richardson/Tommy Naccarato
« Reply #24 on: December 05, 2003, 12:46:02 PM »
Guys, thanks for all of the honors, but to let all of you know, Forrest Richardson is the one you should be congratulating.

Being that I dabble a bit in the aerial stuff, Forrest asked me to come out and take a look and see what bunkers might be salvagable on the Adobe Course next to the famed Arizona Biltmore Hotel as well as find a way to make the reconfigured 10th look and play like a Billy Bell golf hole. Being that I have played a lot of BB Sr. courses as well as mourn the loss of many of them that no longer exist, Forrest felt that I might have something to offer, but, architecturally it was something that had severe limitations due to the proposed line of condos and how they figured safety wise on both sides of the hole.

Much of the hole wasn't Billy Bell's anymore--just a part or section of fairway, which happens to be the most dynamic feature on a course that is tortilla flat.

Forrest had the hole actually designed for sometime but wanted to try to get an input on what the bunkers, or how the bunker(s) should be placed.  It was a great opportunity andI thank him for it and his generousity plus it was fun and exciting. Another part of this package was I got to meet Forrest and his wonderful family who are the most enjoyable if not attentive hosts. I felt like I was staying in the snazziest hotel in the Valley of the Sun.

Also, not to refute the article, but there were some misquotes in there. I'm not a Forensic Golf Course Architect,  :-[ (embarassed emoticon) but Forrest did in actually say that I was "like" a Forensic Golf Course Specialist because of my hobby of looking at these aerial photos and reading them. To call me the best at it would do a disservice to Geoff Shackelford (The real BB authority) Daniel Wexler, Tom MacWood, and one who should never be forgotten--Craig Disher, who happens to come-up with some of the best aerial photos, in at the most timely moment.

The other is that to completely restore the Adobe Course at the Biltmore would be like many great other old classics just like it, close to impossible. The beautiful homes that surround the course have mysteriously crept-up to it to the point that you wonder where they get the nerve to think its their property! Many of the greens have been flattened over the years, as well as fairways moving and the intricate creeks and small arroyos that Bell used to his advantage, to make the very flat site seem fun and moving, are almost all gone. Many bunker carcasses (my term when I mourn the loss of what looks to be a gret old Golden Age bunker that was simply grassed over) do exist ont he course, but the most of them are in areas where the lines of play have moved substanially. Also, one of the key, most unique features that were spread all throughout the Adobe Course were the existence found in old photographs of the giant Saguaro cactus that looked more like they were Hollywood stage props from a old western, they were so big and dynamic and part of the landscape.

To see the effort Forrest has made to try to revive many of those features, yet do it in palatable sense where he isn't hung from the highest Saguaro for being a purist/exremist like myself is what is to be applauded here.  I do think in fact that the hole he has created, is now the most interesting one on the course, and that has little to do with my involvement.

There also has to be many kudo's Forrest's likable associate, Patrick Burton, who did a lot of very timely research in finding many of the photos of the Biltmore from days gone by.