Why is KK's name never brought up on GCA. Is his work good...fair...poor...interesting or unintersting? What are some of his best designs? Are his designs lacking in some way or is his work brilliant or are we all stupid?

While I'm certain you are just trying to annoy a certain younger brother of Ken, I will attempt to answer your question.

Actually there was a thread about Ken Kavanaugh once upon a time, talked about his new work in Colorado that no one seem to have played yet.

I have played 2 of his courses in Arizona, Longbow and Gold Canyon. Both  are very good courses and well worth playing, in fact Longbow was one of the best bargains in Mesa at one time, may still be. Gold Canyon has some truly amazing holes. He seems very low profile and hasn't done a lot of courses which is why he doesn't get talked about.

Here is a link to an article about Ken:

http://www.golfarizona.com/departments/features/ken-kavanaugh.htm

Craig,
   If you are referring to Murphy Creek in Aurora, CO, a few of us actually have played it (I used to have it in my regular rotation until last summers drought made the course nearly unplayable).  The first 12 holes are very good and fun, it loses a bit toward the middle of the incoming 9, but finished well with 17 and 18.  I was recently told by a reliable source that he inherited the routing from another another archie.


Cheers,
Brad Swanson

Doug
I'm not saying he has been given a pass...my point is he is not being given anything. I would disagree about him getting as much attention (or lack of attention) as other architects. The names of Kay, K Dye, Brauer, Hurdzan, Cupp, Mathews, Richardson, Clark, Weed, Smyers, Engh, Stantz, Spahn, Moran and Eckenrode are mentioned much more than KK (and his brother is regualr contributor on GCA). I believe the one thread on KK generated maybe 6 posts...how come? He has been designing golf courses for over 15 years, I'm sure he has more designs than a number of the architects I just listed.

Bruce Mathews has been the subject of numerous threads...one just last week stating his newest designs is one of the most anticipated designs of the coming year. Tom Clark has had his hand a number of redesigns of classic courses....a favorite subject on GCA.

I would disagree on Hurdzan, his first book was mentioned just today or yesterday. His newest book was mentioned a couple of months ago. His courses in NJ, Mass., Florida, Canada have been the subect of threads/posts.

Brauer, Richardson, Spahn [sic], Moran and Eckenrode...all these architects were mentioned prior to their involvement on GCA...although their involvement has only increased the interest. However none of those architects combined have posted as much as John Kavanaugh....discussing Ken would be a natural.

Tom,

Ok by me--anything's fair game on here. I just don't agree that there's any agenda to discuss or not discuss Ken Kavanaugh on here because of one JakaB. John Kavanaugh is not Ken Kavanaugh. In fact, the way JakaB spouts off on here one would think honest, fair criticism, or even dishonest, unfair criticism, of Ken Kavanaugh's courses would proliferate.  

I suppose Ran could call Ken up and do a feature interview...

Anyway, I've given you my unBIASed view of Murphy Creek above, so I'm outta here...  

Tom,

Ok, but of the names you mention  Brauer, Richardson, Spahn [sic], Moran and Eckenrode are very regular participants on this site and their work has for the most part been seen by many GCAers, particularly at official or unofficial GCA events such as the recent New Mexico outing (Spann--and also Ken Dye's Paa-Ko Ridge) and Eckenrode at the Barona King's Putter. I sure don't think there has been much more discussion of Hurdzan, Cupp or Weed than of KK, and who are Mathews and Clark? As mentioned above, I just don't think that many participants on this DG have seen KK's work. Maybe I'm wrong--maybe they'll come out of the woodwork and say so on this thread.

Best,  

Tom,

Doug is right.  These architects get mentioned more because they are participants on GCA or they have friends who are.  Bruce Matthews gets more play than KK because more of us have played his work and because several of us are friends.  Ken's friends on GCA choose to keep that relationship private and shame on you for not honoring that!

George,

You totally missed it.  So what if he is nutty as a granola bar.  Many of us love him for it.  Starting a thread on KK is totally fair game and discussing KK's courses is fair game as well.  Mentioning who is related to whom and bringing in others personal lives is way out of bounds (Even more so, if it has been clear from day one that he does not want it).  In my mind, this would be the rough equivalent of starting a thread about Tom Doak getting arrested for drunk driving and then asking if you wanted to add anything since your daughter had been through the same problem (Obviously this example is fictitious, Doak was not arrested and I have no idea if you even have a daughter).  But it is baiting someone on a personal level that has nothing to do with GCA or architecture.

If Tom has issues with someone then discuss them but to out family relationships and bring up personal issues is way out of bounds, acting as a baby and a very sorry think for Tom to do.  And no, I have never played a KK course, so I cannot comment on his architecture.

David
Get a grip of yourself. How is mentioning John and Ken Kavanaugh’s relation bring up either man’s personal life? Everyone on GCA, who has been on GCA for more than few months knows they are brothers. John has acknowledged it more than once. Just as we all know John and Ran are brothers and Lynn and Geoff Shackelford are father and son. Acknowledging a relationship is not bringing in their personal lives.

I’m not interested in either man’s personal life….there is no place for it on GCA. This is a site devoted to golf architecture and Ken is a architect and John is regular contributor. As far as I’m concerned Ken as architect and John as a contributor are open to all questions relating to the subject matter….do you have a problem with that? Drunk driving and daughters who are drunk drivers…where the hell does that come from?

You said he was as nutty than a granola bar not me. If John K wants to act as nutty as granola bar that’s fine with me…that’s his choice he know what may or may not be the consequences. What does John’s behavior have to do with his brother? Nothing IMO. The only reason it may reflect poorly on his brother (with some), is because John prefers to hide behind an alias…he obviously is afraid it might reflect poorly upon him.

I would disagree with you, when you say that the reason architects like Mathews are mentioned more because they are friends of some contributors. Most of the contributors on this site are not friends of architects and those of us who do have architectural friends I think are often less likely to bring up their work. I think their names come up—good or bad—because of the merits (or lack of merit) of their work.

John
Why do you think he gets little mention on GCA--good or bad?

On the positive side, no one can accuse you of being part of "Golf Club Access" since you are determined to blow up bridges instead of build them.

Spoken like a real fence mender.

Barn -

I'm glad you took off the cheap shot at another poster. I laugh when you make fun of me, but I don't when you make comments that might discourage participation from others.

P.S. Most people might not have even made the connection if others hadn't brought it into the thread.

Tom,

You either don't or won't get it so I'll take once last shot and then quit.  I have no problem with discussing KK's work.  It is that you used this thread to point out a personal relationship!

I will second Shivas's comments about the one and only KK course I've played...Orchard Valley in Aurora, IL.

Although I cannot comment on any actual architectural merit (as it's been quite a while since I played there), I will say that I do remmeber having a really fun day out there and there seemed to be a variety of styled holes with many playing options to choose from.  The 1st hole, fo that matter, is a shortish par-and-a-half par-4 that let's you "go for it" right off the bat...along with some cross-type-bunkers right in the line of play...I though it was a great start to the round, getting the juices flowing immediately.

I don't know much else about his other courses, and I would certainly love another crack at Orchard Valley sometime to get another looksy at it.  It is very highly regarded around the Chicagoland area...from what I remember.

As Mr. Mucci has said "the betting window is open".

I do think another thread about Mr. Kavanaugh would be appropriate.