While they're unlikely to say so, a few player-designers aren't overly interested in course design. They treat it as little more than an endorsement opportunity.

I would still contend that most player-designers are genuinely interested and...more than a handful of us are truly passionate about it.

Of course, being passionate about something is one thing while being able to contribute in a meaningful way to the final product can be another matter altogether. To achieve success, I think the first thing a P.D. needs to be is a realist. The distinction between a P.D. and a golf course architect is an important one, though it is seldom discussed.

...unless the P.D. works closely with a first-rate golf course architect, there is little or no chance that a first-rate product will emerge.

A P.D. should be able to contribute first-hand experience of the world's finest courses...As for specific input, it is guided by a fundamental belief that I have stated often: The best golf courses in the world are invariably the most strategically interesting layouts as well. These are courses that, tee to green, continually stir your imagination and (whatever your skill level) challenge and encourage you to play your best golf.

Dear Nick,

I am nieve enough to hope that this is the real and would lie to ask a question about how much credit a P.D. should get on a design.

You are involved in a number of projects with your input but your fellow associates do not receive any little recognition for their input, do feel this is fair?

I would also agree with Nigel that the world's best golfers do NOT play on the world's best golf courses such as Sand Hills, Pacific Dunes, Royal Dornoch etc. and it is the true architect or lover of architecture that makes the effort to not only play but also to discuss and analyse these courses in detail.

How many golf courses being in the world these days need an opinion from a P.D? What does a P.D know about the average player apart from the weekly Pro Am which most of you hate.

Brian

Scott

Totally agree , Faldo goes out of his way to see courses .

I doubt this is actaully him as he has never answered one e-mail I have sent him over the years , asking questions on designs of his that I have played .
Anyway it is his words as the article is on Linksmagazine's website .

Brian

This thread should be deleted. This is an imposter.

Joel,

    I just read the old issue of Links in which relates his journey to Sand Hills; and he actually shot 66-66. Not a bad little weekend!

Tyler Kearns

Faldo would have had to have hustled to a computer to get this post in, considering he probably finished up his round at The Dunhill shortly before 9:45 EDT, the moment the msg was posted.

Makes sense, all he had to do was cut, paste and edit a bit from his article of the same title on the Links Mag website.  

Jeff,

I heard that he told Greg "...ya know, it IS tough to play this game with both hands around your neck."

I hope this is Nick Faldo--it sure sounds like the Nick Faldo I talked to at Merion a couple of summers ago--and if that wasn't the real Nick Faldo--whoever it was gave a really good imitation of Faldo--including his golf game.

I was very impressed by Nick Faldo's take on architecture--classic architecture and also very much the subject of strategy in architecture. But the thing that really impressed me about him is his true ability to visualize a golf course and the realities of its strategies for ALL golfers and to visualize that extremely intelligently.

I thought that was pretty amazing coming through the eyes of a tour pro--but one should remember that Faldo just may be one of the most thoughtful and intelligent course managers of modern times--maybe of all time. If that doesn't make him a natural strategist I can't imagine why not. And clearly that would make him a natural at picking up all things architecture in relation to strategy.

But the thing about Faldo that apparently makes him a perfect example of someone who can realistically apply architecture to ALL levels of golfers is he happens to be the most observant person I've ever seen of the swings and the abilities (or lack of them) of any golfer within his view.

Everybody knows Faldo is a swing and swing physics fanatic and his ability to observe others and their strengths and limitations I think is a tremendous asset to an architect that he may be working with. He has an uncanny knack of watching the practice swing, for instance, of someone (anyone) he's never seen before and telling you just about what kind of shot that person will hit before he hits it!

You know the way some people say that tour pros look at architecture through ONLY their own "tour pro game" eyes? Well, Faldo can surely do that as well as anyone but he has the ability to look at golf and architecture through the eyes of ALL other levels too. Or I should probably say he has the ability to look at architecture in a way that other levels SHOULD LOOK AT architecture (and strategy)!

I believe that alone is an extremely valuable asset that Nick Faldo may uniquely possess when it comes to architecture!

Jeff B and others, don't you think that the results of P-Ds hooking up with a competent constructor is wholy dependent on the level of commitment of the PD to study and learn the nuts and bolts of the construction side.  

Players have down time.  They can spend a great deal of time on site and learning the realities of construction and limitations of translation of design ideas to the conditions of the site on the ground.  Or, they can treat it like any other endorsement.  Just like anyone else in any other walk of life, you will have your students of the subject who really do the work needed to fully understand and do quality work, and you will have your slackers that just sign the papers and do nothing while making a nice check.  

Ben Crenshaw is clearly the student and pursues the subject in earnest.  Why can't Nick Faldo be thought of as the same earnest designer?  Nick has written well on the subject for years now in Links.  And, let's be real about how many great courses a fellow of Nick's stature and longevity has experienced.  Cripes sakes, the man probably had played more storied and legendary courses before he was out of his teens than most of the critics here on GCA have played.  I welcome the more serious students of the architecture of the game who are players, as Nick appears to me to be one.  Davis might also be heading in that direction.  However, Fuzzy Zoeller or Phil Michelson as Player-Designers leaves a great deal to ridicule...

Tom Paul, good reply...

Mr. Andrews,

I couldn't agree more re: time spent on site.



Everyone else,

You got it all wrong this isn't Nick Faldo posting.  It's his movie double, Harrison Ford.

Jeff F.

However, based on my experience with pros I know, I say they don't have that much down time to studiously look into architecture, and of course, nothing, (as I constantly hear on this site) beats getting out on site and really learning the business!  How would a pro be different?

Jeff -

I agree with so much of what you post, but I think you're wrong on this one. Not much down time for a golf pro? Lordy, what, do you think all of us on this board are justing sitting around in our pajamas, posting & drinking?   You'll never convince me that a tour pro doesn't have enough time to learn something about the trade if it's something he desires to get into.

I'm a firm believer in caveat emptor, so I don't really care about the pseudo designing/endorsment thing, but if someone asks me to take him seriously, I expect a little effort on his part.

Nick
Sorry for hi-jacking your post but ,

I really am interested in how many posters here have played a Nick Faldo designed Golf Course .

Brian

Rj,

As you know, most ASGCA member have worked with a qualified ASGCA architect on at least five courses before becoming a member.  There are some who were not an apprentice somewhere, but worked/learnde on his own, but not just consulting, but really being responsible for the outcome of the actual work.  The way the work gets done - plans or field - doesn't count for anything in the membership process anymore.

My earlier point was precisely that it would be the construction guys (whoever it was) who would be considered the designers (frankly by most here) not a pro who has seen a lot of courses, shows up a half dozen times to make minor "tweaks" based on his playing all of the top 100 in competition, yada, yada, yada.  You can't show up every once in a while and design a golf course, IMHO.

It could very well be that Faldo is one of the great exceptions to the Player as Designer rule, I don't know.  I'm just saying that one glowing article and saying all the right things simply doesn't make that so!  And based on the overwhelming number of player designers who couldn't design their way out of their own golf bags, I prefer to remain skeptical until proven wrong.

In fact, I think the player who has done most to be a designer, bar none, is John Fought. I had the pleasure of co-designing a never realized project with him, and he truly thinks like an architect now.  He took an unpaid position (or low paid) with Bob Cupp doing field work to get into this field.

I doubt Faldo has done that.

As a Wisconsin Badger, I suspect you drink both red and white wine with your corn flakes, BTW.....