Maybe I'm mistaken but having just been to super dry, firm and fast Scotland and England it seems to me one of the interesting effects of those conditions isn't just that the ball does some interesting things bouncing all over the place, rolling out bigtime, making it possible to hit 7 irons 210 yds in some areas BUT it's much easier to hit the ball off turf like that! Maybe it was just me but after a while, after I figured out how to set the club down behind the ball correctly for those conditions, man did I play well in the end.

In the super firm, hard conditions that exist over there right now it appears to be almost impossible to hit the ball fat!!

Figuring out what club to use is terrific, really interesting and challenging and those conditions make anyone pay incredibly close attention to the ground to determine what the bounce and roll out will be but also to determine the deflection of topography--all wonderful things in the ongoing appreciation and education of golf course architecture. That aspect is far more challenging than the "stick it" nature of a lot of American golf courses but it seems to me the striking of the ball over there is much much easier.

Very interesting trade-off! Do others who've been over there find the same thing?

Tom,

When hitting pitch/chip/flop shots off of baked out, dry turf it is important to not let the clubhead pass the hands through the impact zone.  The more one releases the club the more one increases the bounce on the club, therefore, hitting thin or skulled shots due to the club bouncing off the ground too soon and putting the leading edge into the belly of the ball.  It would be much easier for me to show you in person.

Just figured I'd try to drop in a little help.

Jeff F.

I agree with Huck on this, I have a harder time hitting pure shots on firm (often thin) turf.

But I concluded it's because of the irons I play - cavity backs, which have rounded soles vs. blades (haven't played since early 80's), which have flat soles.  Blades must be easier to hit off firmer turf because there's no rounded sole to dig into the turf fat and/or bounce.

Even my 3-wood has a rounded sole vs. the flat-soled Tight Lies-type fairway woods.

I had a hard time hitting the golf ball squarely from the fairway because I am a "swinger" and typically don't take divots.  I just started playing for the thin shot...

I was happy as a clam when my ball would roll into the first cut and I would have a lie where my ball was sitting up.  Those were the only ones I could hit solid.

I think it does come down to "swinger v. hitter."  For swingers like Dan G. and myself and maybe Lou, firm turf is very tough to play off of.  I suck off mats...

For hitters like just about everyone else here, firm turf is a dream, because they don't have to worry about hitting it fat.

TH

Scott:

I treat mats as better than nothing... they're just so commonplace out here, it often comes down to no warmup/practice at all if one is too anti-mat.  Thankfully I do have a couple grass ranges to go to for more serious practice, they're just harder to get to for me.  The problem at these also becomes that they're so popular, they get so beat up that it's soon worse than mats - it's nothing but clumped sod and hardpan!

CA sucks.

TH

TomH:

Interesting! I believe what I may have found out over there was if I just opened the face of the club a bit more than I'm normally used to it just works beautifully. Doing that seems to sort of let the club do all the work obviously because the bottom of the club and its bounce was working perfectly along the necessary area. I also found that doing basically the opposite of what I at first thought I should do--that being hitting down more on the ball or at least feeling like I was works so much better than thinking about sweeping the ball off that kind of super hard turf (the latter probably would have created more bounce and skulled shots). I guess ultimately I account all of this to the fact that many times the physical aspects of the golf swing really is a matter of opposites! All the same worked really well for my 60* wedge which I used a lot over there--just open that face just a bit more than I'm used to and think a bit more about hitting  down into the back of the ball. With the bottom of the club working well on that super hard turf it just seemed like there was little likelihood of ever hitting even that club fat--or bouncing it for that matter.

Bill-

I learned to play golf in Ohio on cool weather grasses (bent, blues) where tight lies were very common.  Well maintained Common or 419 is the easiest to play from because, as you noted, the ball sets up nicely.  Zoysia has some of the same characteristics.  I like 419 best, specially if the ground underneath is kept firm.  When damp or wet, one can take some hillacious divots with the short irons, and, for me at least, I have a hard time knocking the ball down.

Tom H-

I wish I was a swinger, but I am really a hitter who is rapidly approaching just being a hacker.  I move so much forward from the top that my biggest concern is thinning the shot.  As swing faults go, hitting the ball thin ("thin to win") is far superior to hitting it fat.  For me, it is definitely a game of managing my misses.  
 

TomH;

I don't know about that. Even if you're a sweeper of the ball it should work fine. Probably the finest sweeper of the ball in golf's history--Tom Watson--never seemed to have much trouble with his technique over there--eg five British Open victories. But even his super fine technique still amazed me with his results over there since he apparently never bothered to try to keep the ball down over there--he just hit it as he always did and played the effects of the wind every time--to beautiful results, I might add.

However, I might add to that that the real secret to Watson's success over there may have been his amazing capacity to happily take what those courses gave him and to just go on with that grin on his face (it seems he always loved and relished that type of golf and those conditions). This all might have derived from a little know fact about Tom Watson's entire career and that is that more than anything else he loved to go out and practice (in KC) in adverse weather. The worse it was apparently the better he liked it! How could a guy like that not do well in Europe?

redanman:

No I don't have Callaways and I never will again. A couple of years ago I was going to burn and crush my Callaway irons in protest to that evil of all men to golf--Eli Callaway--but the timing was perfect and as I was about to do it they got stolen! I felt very strongly about what he did and is the primary reason I'll never look at your hero, Arnold Palmer, the same way again. Like the Chinese proverb says--I'm more than happy to forgive him--but I'll never forget!

"Swingers v. hitters" is probably not the best way to characterize this, my bad.  How about "sweepers v. diggers"?

That is, do you typically take a big divot on an iron shot or not?

For those who don't, firm conditions make things tougher.  For those who do, firm conditions are easier.  It's all in margin of error.

Of course this only applies to us mortals.  If one really is a good player, this is all meaningless - you adapt to the conditions at hand.

TH

Bill - you are likely much more on track with this than I am.  I've even managed to confuse myself!

I just know that I had a difficult time over there with irons and a really difficult time with pitch shots... and I am definitely a sweeper, I hardly ever take a divot.

Maybe the answer is I just suck!

Don't respond to that.  

TH

Among MANY other things, that's what's made the rounds you and I have played together so fun, Mike - we couldn't have more different styles of hitting the ball.  Remember how I admired the heck out of how you trap the ball?  I wasn't kidding.. I couldn't do that if you paid me.

But yes, add this to the ever-growing list of reasons to get excited about the October journey - the game just might seem easier over there for you!

TH