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Tim_Weiman

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Australia's Finest Golf Courses by Darius Oliver
« on: August 13, 2003, 02:07:23 PM »
I’ve been collecting books about golf courses ever since I was ten years old and Sports Illustrated published “The Best 18 Golf Holes in America”. With such a hobby, I’ve especially enjoyed the renaissance in books about golf architecture over the past several years thanks to various writers (too numerous to mention) and publishing companies like Sleeping Bear.

Along the way, I’ve asked myself “what gaps exist in the literature?” Several ideas always came to mind, but one that stood out was the absence of books about golf courses in Australia. Until Paul Daley and Dave Scaletti’s wonderful recent book “The Sandbelt, Melbourne’s Golfing Heaven” there was almost nothing. Unfortunately, I never was able to obtain a copy of Tom Ramsay’s apparently very good book about the best holes in Australia.

The good news is that we now have another book about golf courses in Australia: “Australia’s Finest Golf Course” by Darius Oliver who appears to know the subject well having grown up in Melbourne. Oliver covers not just the well known courses in Australia but more than sixty in total. Wisely Oliver doesn’t try to discuss every single hole on each course, but he does give the reader a good sense of what each course is all about and why it would be worth a visit. Oliver should also be given credit for selecting Dave Scaletti as his principal photographer. Scaletti’s work is superb. He must rank as one of the very best golf course photographers in the world.

I can best sum up Oliver’s book by saying that it reminds me of how my golf architecture education is incomplete as I still have never made it “down under”. Not only does Oliver’s book strengthen my desire to finally make the journey. It makes me want to book a longer trip. Only my love affair with Ireland and desire to spend time with my daughter keeps putting this trip off.

Oliver, by the way, is involved with ausgolf.com, apparently one of Australia’s best golf related web sites.

I strongly recommend “Australia’s Finest Golf Courses” to people with an interest in this topic. The link to the site where you can order a copy is: www.ausgolf.com.au

« Last Edit: August 13, 2003, 03:50:28 PM by Tim_Weiman »
Tim Weiman

Ran Morrissett

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Re:Australia's Finest Golf Courses by Darius Oliver
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2003, 02:47:53 PM »
GolfClubAtlas.com is posting a Feature Interview with Darius re: this very book in the first week of October.

Cheers,

JLahrman

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Re:Australia's Finest Golf Courses by Darius Oliver
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2003, 01:18:10 PM »
I thought I'd yank this back up.  I ordered myself a copy of the book.  It is beautiful and the parts I've read so far are very well written.  He covers not only the architecture but also the history of the course.

Darius seems pretty cool, after ordering using an email address that I didn't realize had been deactivated, I emailed the website to make sure the order still went through.  Darius emailed back himself and wants a mini-review once I've gone through the whole book.

les_claytor

Re:Australia's Finest Golf Courses by Darius Oliver
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2003, 11:27:44 PM »
Wow,

I was just thinking today about some of Dr. Mac's Australian work, especially the bunkering, and how I'd like a book on Ausie golf courses.  I'll have to check out those titles and the link.

Thanks Tim

Matthew Delahunty

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Re:Australia's Finest Golf Courses by Darius Oliver
« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2003, 02:07:43 PM »
Tim,

Ramsey published a couple of books in the late 80s/early 90s with photography by John Knight. The first was "Great Australian Golf Holes" (which you referred to). He brought out another a year later entitled "Great Australian Golf Courses" which is a superb book. (Many of the photos appear in both books.) The latter details the history of Ramsey's best courses 50 of the time and gives a hole-by-hole description. I suspect that a great number of those courses probably wouldn't appear in Oliver's book (I don't have a copy yet - I'm actually looking forward to getting a copy). For instance, many of the tradtional Melbourne sandbelt courses seem to have fallen out of favour in course "rankings" due to the number of high quality courses built in the last 15 years and the increased competition for the exposure those rankings provide. It's an indication of how the golfing landscape is changing in this country. We're spoilt by the number of high quality courses available to us.

« Last Edit: October 04, 2003, 02:09:16 PM by Dela »

peter_p

Re:Australia's Finest Golf Courses by Darius Oliver
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2003, 06:48:33 PM »
Another book is 'Courses without Par in Australia', by Marlene Roeder. Published in '92. One of a series of Courses withour Par books.

Tim_Weiman

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Re:Australia's Finest Golf Courses by Darius Oliver
« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2003, 07:22:12 PM »
Dela:

Thanks. Unfortunately I was never able to optain a copy of either Ramsey book, although I think Tom Doak once mentioned they had some pretty photography.

The good news is that we are finally receiving books from Australia, thanks to the efforts of people like Darius, Paul Daley and Dave Scaletti.
Tim Weiman

Shane Gurnett

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Re:Australia's Finest Golf Courses by Darius Oliver
« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2003, 07:49:40 PM »
Dela

Whilst there have been a couple of new courses of top 25 status open in Australia in the last 15 years (Moonah, 13th Beach) I think you will find that the declines in the rankings of several sandbelt courses have been entirely due to self inflicted wounds.

Yarra Yarra, Huntingdale, Commonwealth are the three obvious examples where committees have allowed changes to take place over this period which were either unnecessary, poorly conceived and executed, or completely out of keeping with the original design intent. When this sort of thing happens (and it is still happeneing to this day) it makes it easier for new courses to come straight into the top 25.

The obvious exception on the sandbelt is Victoria, which had the guts to admit that they had been heading down the wrong path for years with their course, and undertook a sympathetic restoration based largely on photographs from the 1930's. Victoria now sits formly in the top 6 in the country, whilst the other three continue their rapid decline.




Tim_Weiman

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Re:Australia's Finest Golf Courses by Darius Oliver
« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2003, 09:26:26 PM »
Shane,

I met someone recently who visited Yarra Yarra and expressed disappointment but didn't share any details. Can you do so?
Tim Weiman

Mike_Clayton

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Re:Australia's Finest Golf Courses by Darius Oliver
« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2003, 10:09:13 PM »
Shane g

I couldn't agree more about the alterations to Yarra Yarra,Commonwealth and Huntingdale.
There can be no doubt they are poorer courses for the 'self-inflicted' wounds of the nineties.
Commonwealth and Huntingdale seemed obsessed with making their courses more difficult - especially Huntingdale- and it's been a mistake and agree with the rankings systems or not the changes have been reflected in falls for both. Commonwealth was a legitimate top 100 in the world course - and was ranked in the eighties for some time -  and now, sadly, no one even considers it anymore and it barely struggles into the top twenty in Australia.
Until the powers in the club realistically address the reasons for the decline the course will become increasingly irrelevant when it comes to discussions of significant designs in Australia. And despite what the members probably think,that decline has very little to do with the condition of the golf course.
It is impossible to believe Kingston Heath and Commonwealth were almost indistinguishable in terms of quality at the beginning of the eighties.One made the right decisions and is now ranked in the top 25 in the world and the other made almost all the opposite decisions -  mainly to do with the questions of restoration and trees - and the comparison couldn't be more stark.Surely too, the members at Commonwealth can no longer hide behind the argument that 'Kingston Heath has been ruined' because none of the wise people in the game agree and they cannot all be wrong.

Tim
It is not really surprising an overseas visitor would be disappointed with Yarra Yarra.
They replaced two of Alex Russell's severe greens at the short par three, 4th and the 500 yard par five, 8th and took away the only defences the holes had.
Also they have had significant problems with boundaries and ball flying into houses but even though the problems were largely solved at the 3rd and the 12th the trees really impact negativly on the feel of both tee shots and the bunker work was very clumsy and out of character with the courses original bunkers.
Also the tree planting is very European in theme and it takes away much of the original feel of the land that is so apparant just down the road at Kingston Heath with all the heath and indigenous planting.
There is still some really good stuff at Yarra - as there is at Commonwealth - but it is almost without exception the original work.It is, however, worth a trip to Yarra just to play Mackenzie and Russell's wonderful par three 11th which is one of the best par threes anywhere.

Chris Kane

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Re:Australia's Finest Golf Courses by Darius Oliver
« Reply #10 on: October 05, 2003, 04:21:10 AM »
Tim, Shane, Mike,
There appears to be two consistent themes on the sandbelt these days, which separates the elite courses from those that have fallen from grace.

In the 1980's, all these clubs came to the crossroads: there were two directions in which they could go.  Royal Melbourne, Kingston Heath and Victoria have either been a) left alone or b) restored to their former glory with a small number of sensible renovations which are indistinguishable in character from the original work.  
« Last Edit: November 30, 2003, 11:01:38 PM by Chris Kane »

Tim_Weiman

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Re:Australia's Finest Golf Courses by Darius Oliver
« Reply #11 on: October 05, 2003, 12:31:25 PM »
Mike Clayton:

I believe Tom Doak once wrote that if a course had just 2-3 shots you wanted to play over and over again, that was pretty damn good. But, I'm with you, when I finally make it to Melbourne, I'd like to see Yara Yarra for just #11. Anything that has one of the best par 3's anywhere, has to be worth a visit.

Chris Kane:

Thanks for your coments. I always assumed folks in Melbourne were more sensible than many people in the States when it came to preserving leading golf courses. Well, at least those at RM, KH and Victoria have remained faithful.
Tim Weiman

Chris Kane

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Re:Australia's Finest Golf Courses by Darius Oliver
« Reply #12 on: October 05, 2003, 08:49:59 PM »
Tim,
We're no more sensible in Melbourne than anywhere else.  It saddens me to think that, almost without exception, the sandbelt courses were significantly better fifty years ago than they are now.  

Only Royal Melbourne hasn't "sold out" at some point in its history.

Matthew Delahunty

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Re:Australia's Finest Golf Courses by Darius Oliver
« Reply #13 on: October 06, 2003, 04:18:42 AM »
Tim,

Most of the sandbelt clubs are subject to the same pressures as any organisation. There are issues which arise over time which lead to good and bad decisions.

I don't entirely agree with Chris that the sandbelt courses were significantly better 50 years ago. For instance, the quality of playing conditions is vastly superior on all courses to that even 20 years ago. I suppose it's open to debate whether this makes a course better. Personally, I think that most courses are better for the fact that you have top quality putting surfaces and you don't hit off a bare lie from the middle of the fairway or a tuft of weed. Courses are generally better presented these days. At the same time, you don't want courses manicured and watered to an extent that they don't reflect the natural feel that sandbelt courses exude or which removes the hard, fast conditions for which sandbelt courses are renowned.

On the flip side, some courses have made alterations which have detracted from the standard of those layouts.

I think you have to look at the history of many of the clubs to see why many are now in their current predicament.

1. Most sandbelt clubs did not have truckloads of money when they formed and most still don't. Many rose to prominence on the back of their membership base, which still remains the key to their survival. Golf is still relatively cheap in Australia. However, the traditional clubs in the last 20 years have faced competition from corporate-driven golf developments, mostly on the Mornington Peninsula. The developments can throw huge amounts of money into top quality courses and slick marketing which attracted members away from the traditional clubs. The layouts are necessarily any better but the playing conditions, the 19th hole facilities and the "grass is always greener over the fence" mentality posed and is still posing a threat to the extistence of traditional sandbelt clubs. As a result, committees make decisions which might be in the clubs' or the members' interests (or just due to financial pressures) which aren't always in the best interests of their course from an architectural viewpoint.

To give you an idea, in the last 15 years around Melbourne there have been at least 10 courses opened or about to open (eg, 72 holes at The National/Cape Schanck, 36 holes at Moonah Links, The Dunes, 13th Beach, 36 holes at The Heritage) which have the quality to pose a direct threat to the membership bases of the 12 sandbelt clubs and also the corporate/trade dollar which many now rely upon to stay financially viable. These new courses are usually prospectus membership courses (where membership is tradeable) or pay for play. For the local golfer the plethora of golf courses is fantastic. The increased competition has forced up membership fees dramatically at the second tier and non-sandbelt clubs. Many member golfers are now saying, "Why am I paying ever-increasing subscriptions to play one club when I have such a choice of courses?". Clubs are now being threatened with extinction if they don't act. The question is, how to act?.

In 2000 in Golf Australia's list of the top 25 courses, Mike Clayton said, "Within five years, I expect this list will look considerably different and many of our established courses will have to truly exploit their potential if they wish to remain amongst our best". True. The problem is how to exploit that potential. Many clubs just don't have the financial resources to do it without jacking up fees and thus losing members - a vicious cycle. Rich exclusive clubs like RM, KH and Victoria which have good layouts, great reputation and 20 year waiting lists don't have many worries. They maintain the standard of their courses and remain at the top of the rankings. The next level down have big concerns as they continue to slide down the rankings.

2. Most of the sandbelt clubs were born 50-75 years ago on wide open land. Today those courses are feeling the pressure of the urban sprawl in Melbourne's south eastern suburbs, which has forced course changes. Yarra Yarra, Spring Valley and Kingswood spring to mind. Huntingdale has had flooding issues which forced some of its changes (the fact that it is the only Australian course being exposed annually to tournament golf has also led to changes). I'd envisage that some clubs may have water storage issues in years to come.

3. Just like every other course, the advancement is equipment and ball technology has placed pressure on committees to maintain the challenge their course presents to today's players.

I think those are just a few of the issues facing the sandbelt clubs. However, don't get the wrong idea. Most of the problems can be fixed because the base is still there (sort like a priceless painting which can be restored). Even with the problems at some clubs, the standard of Melbourne's courses is almost unrivalled anywhere. The beauty of the sandbelt is that there are 10-12 top golf courses within 20 minutes of each other. Golfing heaven!

Mike_Clayton

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Re:Australia's Finest Golf Courses by Darius Oliver
« Reply #14 on: October 06, 2003, 06:22:01 AM »
Dela

On the question of whether the courses were architectually better fifty years ago, I'm  afraid I'm with Chris.
From my studies of the old ariel photos and from what we can tell of the original,untouched work many courses were significantly better.
Playing the front nine and then the back at Metro one cannot help but come to the conclusion the front is superior and that the original -pre 1960 - back nine was simply more of the same.The newer Wilson nine is good but not as good.
There can be no debate that the holes lost at Commonwealth were superior to the ones that replaced them.The old seventh was a great - a much overused word but not in this case- hole and the feel at the end of the course was altogether lost when the sixth and twelfth were lengthened after the seventh was moved to make way for the extentions.
The loss of the old first was,too, a detraction because it removed a shot from the course that was really fun to hit.Now it is just a three iron and a sand wedge to a big green.Sure,it looks nice but it lacks both the substance and drama of the original.
Yarra Yarra - see my comments above and likewise for Huntingdale.
Victoria - where we have done a deal of work- was a phenomomal course in the late thirties.The old photo in the clubhouse proves beyond dispute they had the most dramatic set of bunkers on the sandbelt.They were all gone by the mid-seventies but we have restored many and the course is on the way to exploiting it's potential.
What is that potential?
For me the answer is obvious and it stares back at us every time we look at that old photo.It could get closer if they would remove the trees down the right sides of the eighth and eleventh which really hurt those holes.

Kingston Heath and Royal Melbourne are the only two that can claim to be as good as they were.
It is true Kingswood was murdered by boundary problems that forced all that change but it could have been done more sympathetically in my view.
The condition question is also interesting and I think you are in danger of over exaggerating how poor the conditions were.Royal Melbourne is no different as they employ the two grass policy of Claude Crockford.
It is true the courses don't go through the transition from winter to summer grasses but they were all managed the same way as Royal Melbourne and were not a whole lot different than RM is to this day.Perhaps in extremes of drought they struggled but only then were the lies dodgy.
Metro,where I have played since 1975,was always in great shape in the winter as were the rest of the clubs with the poa fairways.
Dave Wilbur - see his post from a week or so ago- thought Royal Melbourne to be the far superior course turf wise from what he saw and questioned the whole one grass system.
Perhaps the santa ana fairways at their best are 'perfect' but have they really made the game any better.There is a significant difference between 'perfect' fairways and fairways that are perfect to play golf from

What is true is some clubs have been forced to alter holes as houses encroached but many alterations were  both self- inflicted  and ill-judged.
 It is debatable if anything significant can be done to a 6800 yard course to make it really relevant length wise for the modern pro. Fortunatly the courses had other subtle inbuilt defences - 7 West is an example of an increadibly difficult 145 yard hole- that mean they are always going to be a relevant challenge.
 It is true there is more choice around and fewer are joining clubs and the second tier ones are going to struggle unless they reinvent themselves and offer more.
We also need to be aware that there can be much relativly cheap improvment but the main weapon is unpopular - the chainsaw.

James_Livingston

Re:Australia's Finest Golf Courses by Darius Oliver
« Reply #15 on: October 06, 2003, 07:04:51 AM »
Chris Kane
I'm not sure Royal Melbourne hasn't headed backwards since it opened, maybe by a long way.  Have a look at the overhead photos in the clubhouse, especially the bunkering.  The holes off the main paddock on RME are one of the most prime candidates for restoration in the country.  And they are not headed in the right direction with Hawtree, judging by the new 15th green.  I can only assume it hasn't received much comment because it is part of the unfashionable East course, and off the main paddock and not part of the composite course.

And how has there managed to be yet another discussion of the sandbelt without reference to Woodlands?  I'm an unabashed fan of this course, and every international GCA afficionado should play it if visiting, especially before higher profile but inferior courses such as Yarra Yarra, Commonwealth, Metro, Huntingdale and Victoria.  It has the best mix of holes on the sandbelt, with outstanding holes of every length.  It is also substantially unaltered since the 1920s, and is hard to fault condition wise, and can be frighteningly firm and fast over the drier months.

Mike_Clayton

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Re:Australia's Finest Golf Courses by Darius Oliver
« Reply #16 on: October 06, 2003, 07:57:56 AM »
James

You are right about Woodlands - it is fantastic and very underrated.They did alter the eighth and shorten it and it has never measured up to the old version. Other than that it has changed little although there are some bunkers missing e.g left of seven.
I don't know if it is 'better' than Victoria but I would agree with the rest of your assesment.

There was a fantastic bunker on the 11th East that could be put back - it looked awesome.

Paul_Daley

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Re:Australia's Finest Golf Courses by Darius Oliver
« Reply #17 on: October 06, 2003, 08:23:39 AM »
James: a few years ago I was on a magazine course rating panel, and noted the majority of the group rated Woodlands somewhere between 18-25, nationally. After nearly choking on my cup-cake, and wondering just who had actually played this jewell, I was left feeling like a Martian for placing it No. 8.

Whenever O/S visitors play Woodlands, they are quick to sing its priases. Locals - perhaps due to the course being situated off the main cluster - and dare I say, "snob" value - downgrade the course. For one reason or another, keen Melbourne amateurs just don't gravitate towards Mordialloc. Is it really that far out of the way? Perhaps among the more knowledgeable members, a culture of not actively inviting discerning guests exists. Don't know, all I know is that Woodlands is some course - variety personified.
   

Tim_Weiman

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Re:Australia's Finest Golf Courses by Darius Oliver
« Reply #18 on: October 06, 2003, 10:15:07 AM »
Guys:

Thanks very much for your comments about courses in the Melbourne area. It helps create a more international feel for the discussion group which is still far too American.
Tim Weiman

Chris Kane

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Re:Australia's Finest Golf Courses by Darius Oliver
« Reply #19 on: October 06, 2003, 05:18:15 PM »
James,
No question that Royal Melbourne was superior when it opened, and not just the East course holes off the main paddock.  There is an great photo in the clubhouse which shows the main paddock in the 30's from ground level, without trees!  The heather which separates the fairways is incredible.

I too am a fan of Woodlands, and would place it behind only RM*2, KH and Victoria.  

Paul,
Its amazing how Woodlands continues to slip under the radar when it comes to analysis of the sandbelt: both within this forum and elsewhere.  Indeed, if you were the typical Melbourne golfer to name the courses of the sandbelt, my guess is that many would name it either last, or not at all.  I'd assume that its low-profile is due mainly to "snob-value", it isn't a fashionable club like any of the others.  As Mike said here a couple of months ago, "not enough doctors and lawyers as members".

Woodlands is only 5 minutes past RM, so I don't understand the people who think its too far out of the way!

Tim,
The question for you is: when are you going to visit these places so you can contribute your vast knowledge to these threads?  :D

Matthew Delahunty

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Re:Australia's Finest Golf Courses by Darius Oliver
« Reply #20 on: October 07, 2003, 12:32:09 AM »
It's a little bit surprising that Woodlands hasn't attracted more praise since it's exposure in the early 90s when it hosted the Vic Open where people got the chance to see it on TV(perhaps that's saying more about what happened to the Vic Open than it says about the course).

Mike:
There are a few holes which come to mind at Victoria. I suppose Thompson's No.1 always attracts a lot of criticism, but I'd be interested to hear some comments about No.17. Once upon a time it was regarded as one of the finest par fives in the country. Since the changes it hardly warrants a mention. Re Kingston Heath - that bunker on 11 is probably the only blight.

You mentioned looking at aerial photos and other old photos. Those don't always give an indication of how the contours of the land have been changed, especially the subtle ones. Some of these changes occur with nature and some are man-made. I remember Peter Thompson once talking about how the 7th on the West course has evolved over time with the lip on the front bunker building up as sand is thrown out on the green. I suspect the 10th at Kingston Heath has probably developed in a similar way. I suppose there are numerous examples where clubs have created mounds around or behind greens which have altered their character - or swales such as the 7th at Kingston Heath. That sort of thing doesn't readily show up on a lot of old photos. Fortunately, some of the modern books and photos will give us a better idea in 50 years on how to restore or preserve some of the better features of our courses.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2003, 12:45:12 AM by Dela »

George Blunt

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Re:Australia's Finest Golf Courses by Darius Oliver
« Reply #21 on: October 07, 2003, 01:21:42 AM »
As a recent immigrant to the Sandbelt, (from NSW), I am struck by the total contrast in the quality of golf courses down here (in Melbourne).

Can anyone explain why there are really only 2 course in NSW that could even be mentioned in the same sentence as any of the Sandbelt courses?  I refer to NSW GC and, it's a bit of a stretch, Newcastle GC.  

Apart from NSW GC, none of the high profile course in Sydney that I have played - Royal Sydney, The Australian, The Lakes, Concord, Ryde Parramatta, Avondale, Pymble, Oatlands, Riverside Oaks, Bonnie Doon - have the same degree of strategic merit and hence inherent interest that is in abundance on the Sandbelt.  

Is it a co-incidence that Sydney has not produced as many world class golfers as Melbourne, or indeed as rural Australia has produced?

Why is it that the two cities are so completely different in this regard?  It can't just be the better coffee and restaurants!!

Cheers,

George

Chris Kane

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Re:Australia's Finest Golf Courses by Darius Oliver
« Reply #22 on: October 07, 2003, 01:58:30 AM »
George,
My first thought would be that a "culture of great architecture" developed in Melbourne during the 20's, which unfortunately didn't catch on in Sydney to the same degree.  

When MacKenzie came out in 1926, it not only did wonders for the courses he worked on, but created a very high standard which other courses aspired to.  Having a master builder like Mick Morcom involved with construction on many of the courses, and the influence he had on others, would have helped as well.

I'm not so sure that the numbers of great golfers produced in Melbourne v Sydney can be directly attributed to the sandbelt: although most of them finished their amateur careers as members one of those courses, the sandbelt hasn't groomed one player from start to finish.  Most joined when they were already accomplished players.  Still, the sandbelt is a great place to try and become a great player.  

Mark_Huxford

Re:Australia's Finest Golf Courses by Darius Oliver
« Reply #23 on: October 07, 2003, 02:25:08 AM »
Let us hope that as a result of better work in designing
and constructing courses, Australian golfers as a
whole may be even more intrigued by this fascinating
game. Let us hope too, that the standard of play will
be raised thereby and that Australians may thus take
their place in the big golf of the world.


Alister MacKenzie
13, November, 1926.

Mike_Clayton

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Re:Australia's Finest Golf Courses by Darius Oliver
« Reply #24 on: October 07, 2003, 05:36:55 AM »
Dela

It is true that you cannot tell everything from the old ariels but you can tell much from the shapes of the bunkers - aside from the obvious questions of where they might have been.The old Victoria photo is the best example but there are now some terrific photos in the new clubhouse at RM.
Graeme Grant could only restore the bunkers at 15 and 12 at Kingston Heath because he looked at the old maps and discovered they were once there.The 2nd shot bunkers at the 12th were discovered under 30 years of tee tree growth.
The seventeenth hole at Victoria was changed because of the house next door and too many skulled bunker shots.
The old green was surrounded by bunkers but the new one - which was rebuilt three times, I think - was never as good.
We did a lot of work around it before The Open last year - re- buiding the existing bunker and adding one at the back and getting rid of all the mounding around the green.
Without rebuilding the green - which wasn't an option- I think it is decent but the mound at the front right of the green still grates on me.
We also removed the three fairway bunkers and built one decent one.
The problem with the hole is the santa-ana  turf slides the ball all the way across the fairway behind the trees on the right. It needs a better fairway grass to hold the ball that is hit close to the bunker. If the trees on the right  were removed the hole would be much better but they protect the boundary.
It is a much better hole from the new tee further back because there is some room to drive into but the club are reluctant to use it because of the houses on the right.
Every one says the sand has altered the bunkers by building up the lips and no doubt it has to some extent but I first played the 10th at KH in 1970 and it doesn't look a whole lot different - except for all the trees that were removed from the back and Grant did rebuild the green.
What we have to do is to judge what the altered work was once like by understanding the stuff that has evolved free- as far as possible- from the hand of man.
Graeme Grant once told me in his first year as an apprentice at RM he took to the lip of the front bunker at the 7th West as rounded it off perfectly.Claude Crockford was fortunatly a very gentle man and all he said was ' Graeme ,it took me 30 years to get that bunker looking the way it did this morning'
Maybe it was Graeme who had more to do with it than the members and years of hacking sand onto the green.

George

No teachers,bad courses and too much beer - or better teachers, better courses and less beer in Melbourne