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David Wigler

  • Karma: +0/-0
Blue Mound CC - WOW!! - Good and Bad
« on: July 28, 2003, 08:54:49 AM »
I recently had a chance to review Blue Mound CC for the first time.  Several things struck me.  Why does this course not get more publicity?  It is a true Seth Raynor design with all of his favorite holes.  It lacks the elevation changes of a ShoreAcres but I certainly felt was superior in design elements to many courses that get lots of GCA pub (Mountain Lake for one - Which is a top 100).  It still has a little tree encroachment and its bunker work needs some help but the elements of a great golf course were there.  Actually, it is quite interesting.  It appears that some of the course has been restored and some has not.  #3 makes you want to cry though.  It is a phenomenal Biarritz (Every bit as good as ShoreAcres).  Unfortunately, the forward part of the green and the swale do not get cut and are left as fairway.  Instead of one of the more cool holes in NA golf, it is a long par 3 with a small circular green (Boring).  

Has anyone else seen Blue Mound?  Do you agree that it is special?  Why no publicity?  
And I took full blame then, and retain such now.  My utter ignorance in not trumpeting a course I have never seen remains inexcusable.
Tom Huckaby 2/24/04

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Blue Mound CC - WOW!! - Good and Bad
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2003, 09:42:14 AM »
David, I recently spent a day at the Wisconsin State Am tournament at Blue Mound.   I took about 100 pictures of the cool golf design of SR that I found.  Regarding #3 Biarritz, I have only seen one other at Yeaman's Hall.  YH also does not mow infront of the swale.  I thought that BM's would work well in firm and dry.  The recent rain conditions and perhaps normal watering practices of the BMCC may keep it on the soft side.  I felt that the 4 par 3s were absolutely great and more dramatic than the other theme SR holes I have seen.  And, the first green site is also a very good redan design, but on a par 4.  The punchbowl and double plateau are to die for.  I saw bottle holes, Strategy, road, cape, hogsback, double plateau and knoll.  Some of the concepts have two design themes on one hole.  I agree, about 250 trees need trimming.  The 10th, Lido, has been lost.  Where you see the fairway bunker in the rough on the left side, I believe should be a mid fairway bunker, and the treed portion of the rough should be fairway, I think.  I wish they'd have George Bahto come in there and follow everything he tells them to a tee.  He told me he helped with writing their club history.  But, they need to hear him out on maintenance meld and tree removal.  It is a tough decision for those sort of clubs.  The trees are lovely and were mostly planted as spurce, mountain ash, and various maples (shagbark and reds) for color aesthetics and texture contrasts.  But, they aren't right for presenting an authentic SR golf design.  The most disappointing hole on the course in my opinion was 18 in that it is mostly just a long par 5.  The green and clipped surrounds saves it however.  I just got to get an invite to play there.  I'd be happy to play just the par 3s only for a week. ;) :o ;D
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

David Wigler

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Blue Mound CC - WOW!! - Good and Bad
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2003, 09:58:56 AM »
Dick,

I was there walking the course on Wednesday morning.  I wish I had given you a call.  We could have hooked up.  I was amazed that on Wednesday, 1-under was leading the AM on a course that is less than 6,400 from the tips.
And I took full blame then, and retain such now.  My utter ignorance in not trumpeting a course I have never seen remains inexcusable.
Tom Huckaby 2/24/04

David Wigler

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Blue Mound CC - WOW!! - Good and Bad
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2003, 10:53:24 AM »
It's become too short, not demanding really, and just not in the same league as some of the great courses in the Midwest.  
       

Shivas,

Walking it, I would have agreed with you but then i looked at the scoreboard.  1-Under was leading the Wisconsin State Am.  The course was more than demanding
And I took full blame then, and retain such now.  My utter ignorance in not trumpeting a course I have never seen remains inexcusable.
Tom Huckaby 2/24/04

David Wigler

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Blue Mound CC - WOW!! - Good and Bad
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2003, 12:54:40 PM »
Shivas,

I do not think this is a "Great, Great" course but I do believe that if it was 70 - 100 in GW's top 100 classical, it would not be out of place.  I also believe that a restoration by Doak, DeVries, Matthews or any of the other classical experts could get it even higher.

What is more amazing to me is that GCA (The leading expert on classical golf) has almost no participants who have played the course.  It is both architecturally and historically significant and yet completely unknown (I had no idea it was a Seth Raynor until I got there).  How did it fall off the radar screen?
And I took full blame then, and retain such now.  My utter ignorance in not trumpeting a course I have never seen remains inexcusable.
Tom Huckaby 2/24/04

David Wigler

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Blue Mound CC - WOW!! - Good and Bad
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2003, 03:11:08 PM »
What a let down  :'(.  I come across a really cool hidden gem and am really excited to discuss it and Shivas is the only person on GCA who has ever played it.  I hereby nominate Blue Mound for the best "Completely Under the Radar" golf course in the country!!  Does anyone know who their marketing director is?  They need to get some help with publicity.  Dick Daley - Give them a call and offer part time marketing services in return for playing time.
And I took full blame then, and retain such now.  My utter ignorance in not trumpeting a course I have never seen remains inexcusable.
Tom Huckaby 2/24/04

Jeff Goldman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Blue Mound CC - WOW!! - Good and Bad
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2003, 06:47:01 PM »
David,

Here's another one "under the radar"--Ravisloe CC in Homewood, now that most of the restoration by David Esler is done (about 70% or so).  I'll post when I have more time, but the cross-bunkers - Wow!

Jeff Goldman
That was one hellacious beaver.

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Blue Mound CC - WOW!! - Good and Bad
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2003, 08:14:39 PM »
Shivas, I think that Wiggles is correct.  At 6350 yards on a par 70, I don't think this course is any pushover or candidate for boredom by anyone in the amatuer ranks carrying a handicap of 4 or above.  The course has interesting shot making strategies off the tee for those in the 230-270 yard driving spectrum.  Those busting it routinely over that are still going to have plenty of challenge with a wedge into nearly everything.  Come at those greens from the wrong direction, even if you are 310 off the tee, and you will have your hands full.  I found the FW bunkers placed much better and more integral to the design concepts at BM than the recent SR course we played at the Seth Raynor Society gathering at Wanuatonomy in R.I.  The greens surrounds of bunkers, turfed slopes, and dramatic earthworks with demanding internal contours of the greens are never going to yield to someone ravaging this course, no matter if every shot in is a 8I to wedge!  I would venture to say that if I could miraculously get my playing skills to a 4-5, I would never tire of playing this course.  In fact, if I could play a course like this, with such shot making demands on a daily basis, it may be my only path to a miraculous drop in my handicap. ::)  I don't believe one can play this course in a stuper of boredom and shoot a ho-hum par to their handicap without some serious good play.  

However Wiggles,  I get the distinct impression that the membership could care less about marketing their gem to anyone.  I can't blame them about that.  After seeing it however, I'd become their pimp if that would get me in! ;D 8) :o
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Brad Swanson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Blue Mound CC - WOW!! - Good and Bad
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2003, 08:31:00 PM »
Hey Dick,
   Not to be pushy or anything  ;), but didn't you say you had some pics of Blue Mound CC.  I'd really like to see them.

Cheers,
Brad

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Blue Mound CC - WOW!! - Good and Bad
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2003, 08:33:54 PM »
I can only send them to you e-mail.  I still don't have my homepage because I am internet stupid.  I tried to follow the directions on setting it up provided by RoadRunner a dozen times and get bollixed up.  I'll send you the par 3s by e-mail shortly.
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

George_Bahto

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Blue Mound CC - WOW!! - Good and Bad
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2003, 09:40:16 PM »
Blue Mound:

Pretty neat place. I’ve recently had the honor of working with the club on their Centennial Club History -
1903 - 2003 ..  (as well as the new one of Fishers Island).

Lots of good info and photos in the C/Hist. I’m not sure how many they have printed but it you might contact their GM Peter Fisher or the pro shop (pro, Barry Linhart) to see about the availability.

Blue Mound was one of the uncompleted courses at the time of Seth’s death in January 1926 and after the winter thaw was completed under the direction of Josh Banks and officially opened later that year.

Tom Doak’s Renaissance Golf did the Master Plan and is currently involved on the restoration and hopefully more of the tree removal - its major flaw at present. Hard to believe but a 1937 aerial shows the course virtually treeless!!!

The Double Plateau 2nd green is one of their great greens - huge!!

This course when redone deserves some status reconsideration.

It was a pleasure working with their pres. Bob Bonner Blue Mound C. C. on their project and I have the utmost respect for their membership and their staff. As an added treat, if you can gain an invite, you will find a very unique slate-roofed, Lannon Stone clubhouse that houses one of the finest and largest collections of golf art I’ve seen (thanks to the foresight of one of their member many years ago).

It is great to hear there was such a resistance to scoring. It’s amazing how some of these “short” courses do so well in state and regional tourneys - it’s that base architecture!!

It has (and in some cases, had) the full compliment of classic holes with a few extras thrown in to the mix but much of the original bunkering had been scaled way down from the original Raynor Banks concept.

Some of the holes: after #2 comes the Biarritz Alps bunkering on 4, Leven 5, an Eden as the 6th, and
interestingly the 7th was to represent a version of the original routing of 12-National. They’re al there - the
Punchbowl, a Cape, Short, Long etc and even a couple option holes but the fairway have narrowed (trees again) dramatically over the years. Two of the holes were also modeled after what Raynor had built at Chicago Golf in 1923.

It’s unfortunate that so many club really did not “allow” Raynor to built the full compliment of holes he presented on his original proposals - I’ve accumulated a pretty large collections of his original designs and you’ll see them in print (one of these days - hah) - the original concept drawings would have played really tough.
If a player insists on playing his maximum power on his tee-shot, it is not the architect's intention to allow him an overly wide target to hit to but rather should be allowed this privilege of maximum power except under conditions of exceptional skill.
   Wethered & Simpson

David Wigler

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Blue Mound CC - WOW!! - Good and Bad
« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2003, 07:41:14 AM »
Hopefully we can get a Terraserver up on this property.  You can see the Biarritz that has been lost from the sky.

George,

Is Doak still at work there?
And I took full blame then, and retain such now.  My utter ignorance in not trumpeting a course I have never seen remains inexcusable.
Tom Huckaby 2/24/04

David Wigler

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Blue Mound CC - WOW!! - Good and Bad
« Reply #12 on: July 29, 2003, 08:43:11 AM »
Another note on this course that no one has ever played, Gene Sarazen won a PGA Championship here in the 30's.  Someone please go play it so I can discuss!!!
And I took full blame then, and retain such now.  My utter ignorance in not trumpeting a course I have never seen remains inexcusable.
Tom Huckaby 2/24/04


Tommy_Naccarato

Re:Blue Mound CC - WOW!! - Good and Bad
« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2003, 11:36:14 AM »
Sorry I couldn't ge the bottom of the image. Terraserver has a internal error.


RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Blue Mound CC - WOW!! - Good and Bad
« Reply #15 on: July 29, 2003, 11:59:31 AM »
Excellent Tommy, the Mapquest color photo link is ridden with tree shadow,
this one is much better.  However, there are restored-added bunkers not seen
on this B&W aerial.  Most significant are FW right side B on 2, reworked bottle B on 4,
the back of green B on 5, strategy FW left Bs on 6,
staircase of carry Bs on hillside of 12 and left green side Bs,
 more staircase to carry to plateau Bs on 14 and left FW on 14.
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

David Wigler

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Blue Mound CC - WOW!! - Good and Bad
« Reply #16 on: July 29, 2003, 02:21:51 PM »
Look on the left hand corner and you can see the Biarritz that could have been if they would just restore it.  :'(
And I took full blame then, and retain such now.  My utter ignorance in not trumpeting a course I have never seen remains inexcusable.
Tom Huckaby 2/24/04

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Blue Mound CC - WOW!! - Good and Bad
« Reply #17 on: August 18, 2003, 02:01:21 PM »
Well, I'm one lucky guy.  I saw Blue Mound at the tournament and was blown away by the outstanding examples of Seth Raynor pattern holes that exist there.  Now, thanks to a GCA lurking reader, I had the opportunity to play the course.  It is everything I was gushing about earlier in this thread.  I wonder if Dave has played it since Bruce Hepner of Doak's Renassaince team has commenced some nips and tucks, setting a few tees on different lines of play, tree removal, green edge and fringe reclamation, and bunkering restore or rework.  I think BM offers you a chance to be a good striker of the ball off the tee, and leaves you enough option to get the placement in the fairway correct, and then sets you up for creative approach shots.  If you get a little wild off the tee (as I do all too often) you will really have some scrambling and shot invention to contend with.  Although this is GCA sacrilege to some extent, I think that the over abundance of trees is a two sided argument more so at this course than most.  I still think there are a few places to remove a few more trees, and open up some interesting angles at the spectacular and diverse manufactured greens, but the difficulty and challenge of inventing shots to get out of tree jail also has some merit in this case due to some shortish holes.  But, I think use of trees as strategy should be found sparingly and not as much as currently demanded at BM with as many trees that still remain.  And, there are some notable long par 4s lengthened by Hepner that will test even the long hitters.  I'd like to explore if 9 tee can be backed up 50 yards (which would seemingly require a huge constuction of new teeing mound and a tough squeeze of angle to the LZ and teeing ground proximity problems to 8 green) to make that hole a very strong one.

What occurred to me during my round was that Blue Mound could be one of the very best LPGA stops if they would organise one.  Even as a Women's open site, I think it may be better than Pine Needles, and way better than Waverly, or Merrit Club, no kidding! :) :o 8)

I had a nice conversation with their pro Barry Linhart, and he truly is in tune with the efforts of Hepner, and the rediscovery by members of what a true gem of a classic golf course they have.  In fact, they were having a members theme day later yesterday, playing with 7 clubs and some in period attire, in tribute to when Sarazen won there in 1930s.  It seems to me that BM might become a real darling of the Seth Raynor society and Raynor followers, if more folks were able to experience this wonderful golf course.  
« Last Edit: August 18, 2003, 02:07:30 PM by RJ_Daley »
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Matt_Ward

Re:Blue Mound CC - WOW!! - Good and Bad
« Reply #18 on: August 18, 2003, 02:40:27 PM »
Shivas:

Now -- come on! I've heard a good number of excellent comments from a wide range of people -- not just the tunnel vision types if you know who I mean Shivas.

I hope to play the course sometime next year when the PGA comes to Whistling Straits. For those who've played it is it better than Shoreacres? You know how I positively adore that exciting layout in the northern burbs of Chicago. ::)