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RJ_Daley

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All hail the ladies and Pumpkin Ridge...
« on: July 07, 2003, 04:35:34 PM »
Lots of great excitement provided by spirited competitors on a great course, I think... ;D
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Steve Lang

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:All hail the ladies and Pumpkin Ridge...
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2003, 04:39:58 PM »
 :o

Steadfastness in the face of pressure.

Snead's old drive for show, putt for dough line revisited..
« Last Edit: July 07, 2003, 07:21:00 PM by Steve Lang »
Inverness (Toledo, OH) cathedral clock inscription: "God measures men by what they are. Not what they in wealth possess.  That vibrant message chimes afar.
The voice of Inverness"

CHrisB

Re:All hail the ladies and Pumpkin Ridge...
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2003, 04:42:12 PM »
Congratulations to Pumpkin Creek on producing the best tournament finish in many years, probably since the 1999 U.S. Open at Pinehurst.

You rarely see a player make a long putt to tie on the last hole of a major, and you almost NEVER see a player follow it up with a putt like right on top it to win.

Just great to see.

Rick Shefchik

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:All hail the ladies and Pumpkin Ridge...
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2003, 04:52:02 PM »
I agree -- outstanding tournament, phenomenal finish.

Johnny Miller said Lunke was doing it with "smoke and mirrors," and for much of the afternoon, it looked like he was right. But in addition to her rock-solid putting, she hit every shot she needed to hit down the stretch, including that delicate little pitch on 17 that was a chunk or a blade just waiting to happen.

It certainly looks as though Michelle Wie has everything it takes to dominate this field in a very few number of years, but in the meantime, both Lunke and Stanford exhibited qualities of heart and determination that are essential to becoming a real champion.

Every now and then overwhelming ability and outstanding character come together in a Tiger Woods or a Jack Nicklaus, but we've yet to see whether Wie has the whole package. In the meantime, wouldn't you love to have the nerves of Lunke or Stanford?


"Golf is 20 percent mechanics and technique. The other 80 percent is philosophy, humor, tragedy, romance, melodrama, companionship, camaraderie, cussedness and conversation." - Grantland Rice

Chris Perry

Re:All hail the ladies and Pumpkin Ridge...
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2003, 04:56:29 PM »
In the meantime, wouldn't you love to have the nerves of Lunke or Stanford?

Yes.

Not to mention a putting stroke.

CHrisB

Re:All hail the ladies and Pumpkin Ridge...
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2003, 04:58:06 PM »
Eckstein,

Hazeltine in 2002 was a great finish, but with Beem only having to bogey #18 to win (which he did), it didn't top this one.

Valhalla in 2000 was great as well, and Woods' and May's matching 31s on the back nine representing one of the best duels ever, and yes, both players made super putts to get into the playoff. It's close, but with the 90th hole heroics and Lunke's putt ending the tournament, I'll go with Lunke/Stanford.

There hasn't been a major decided on the final putts like this in quite a while.  Does anyone remember the last time the challenger made a putt like that (esp. in a major) to tie on the last hole, only to have the champion knock one in right on top to end it?

(I can think of Watson/Nicklaus at Turnberry in 1977, but Watson's putt to win was only a 2-footer...)
« Last Edit: July 07, 2003, 05:05:12 PM by ChrisB »

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:All hail the ladies and Pumpkin Ridge...
« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2003, 05:08:20 PM »
Pak-Chisiroporn, both on Sundaylast putt on last hole of regulation, and at the end of playoff 18 as I remember, sending it to extra holes ending on the 11th or second sudden death hole.  These women have really produced some exciting finishes in recent years.
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

cary lichtenstein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:All hail the ladies and Pumpkin Ridge...
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2003, 09:17:01 PM »
First time I watched the Women's US Open. Thanks to all the flap about Anita, it put Women's golf on my radar screen.

I would love to see Hootie Johnson invite Anita and Michelle Wie to next years Masters. Can they compete? No, but neither can the old guys, but I bet the tv and press rating would be thru the roof.

Everyone would like to see Micheele and Tiger drive the ball. Probably more so than Tiger and John Daley, because they have seen that already.

Golf is like all sports, entertainment. Babe Zacharis terrific. Entertainment pays the big bucks.

Every PGA pro should thank Tiger ever morning they get up. These guys make big bucks because Tiger entertains the fans. Ditto with Anita and Michelle Wie.
Live Jupiter, Fl, was  4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 4 back surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms. Last course I played was Augusta

Eckstein

Re:All hail the ladies and Pumpkin Ridge...
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2003, 09:56:21 PM »
quasssi
Are you drunk?


A_Clay_Man

Re:All hail the ladies and Pumpkin Ridge...
« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2003, 10:19:58 PM »
Look at how all the old classic courses can be used for this prestigious event.

Obsolete?

 I don't think so.

tonyt

Re:All hail the ladies and Pumpkin Ridge...
« Reply #10 on: July 08, 2003, 04:10:13 AM »
I think Pumpkin Ridge has shown that with the slightly lesser demands on length and overall infrastructure compared to the men, we should see the US Womens Open played at Merion every five to eight years.

tlavin

Re:All hail the ladies and Pumpkin Ridge...
« Reply #11 on: July 08, 2003, 10:14:49 AM »
Pumpkin Ridge was fast, fun and firm.  The play by the leaders was dramatic and tense.  What more could you want out of any Open championship, much less a Women's Open?  Maybe Pumpkin isn't worthy of the men's Open, but it still is a fine golf course.  Not every course can be Merion, Shoreacres or any of the other blueblood hall of famers that tend to be slobbered over by many of us.  If you haven't played Pumpkin, I suggest that you make it a stopover on your way to Bandon/Pacific Dunes.  It's a little gimmicky at times, but it really fits well on the site.

John Foley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:All hail the ladies and Pumpkin Ridge...
« Reply #12 on: July 08, 2003, 10:23:14 AM »
I was amazed by how brown the course looked yesterday as compared to last Thursday. The super & his team should be commended for the set up which made it happen.

Integrity in the moment of choice

JakaB

Re:All hail the ladies and Pumpkin Ridge...
« Reply #13 on: July 08, 2003, 10:32:43 AM »
I think it takes players of lesser talent to provide a compelling championship....how cool was it just to never know when the next bad shot would appear...I am shocked to say it was the first tournament I have enjoyed watching for a long time.   That being said I am afraid the set up was too forgiving and may have handed the Championship to the short hitting player...how many times can you allow a player to lay up short of the green and have an easy chip...Kelly Robbins got robbed before the first shot of the playoff was ever struck but it made for great drama and was good for the womens game....is she from Chicago or something.

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:All hail the ladies and Pumpkin Ridge...
« Reply #14 on: July 08, 2003, 10:42:26 AM »
Barney, I'm not sure why you feel the set-up robbed the long drivers of the ball.  Isn't that part of the drama that makes it a more worth while tournament (long and strong VS cleaver and accurate)  Really, the second longest hitter in the field blew it.  Annika had it in the bag on the 72nd hole until she hit the push into the trees and blew the recovery opportunity.  Various manner of players in terms of skillsets were all in it at the end, making it and the course a good test for a variety of players with equal chances to win.  What more could we ask from a golf course?

BTW, Johnny Miller called the game of Lunke's 12 year old golf, because she was short and always just off the green in regs and just kept hitting fringe-collar approaches close enough to one-putt.  
« Last Edit: July 08, 2003, 10:45:29 AM by RJ_Daley »
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

JakaB

Re:All hail the ladies and Pumpkin Ridge...
« Reply #15 on: July 08, 2003, 11:26:57 AM »
RJ,

I'm talking about the set up of the playoff...the set up of the final day brought the true strikers of the ball back into the game...the playoff and its easiest possible pin placements was on purpose...for what purpose is my question.   As I say this it might be conscrued that the final day pin placements were put in the tucked positions to bring "man pants" back into the fray....I'm happy she lost out.

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:All hail the ladies and Pumpkin Ridge...
« Reply #16 on: July 08, 2003, 11:35:06 AM »
It is my understanding that the USGA committee, along with Oscar Miles as official superintendent consultant, scout the course prior to the day's competition and try to find a balance of tucked, and interesting open pin placements that will be balanced and not favor one player's style over another.  I somewhat remember Black Wolf Run's set up on playoff day, and that was discussed as the goal of the set-up (balanced pin positions).  If you call some of those pins the easiest possible given the consequences of being just off on the fringe or putting from the wrong side, well you must really have some kind of extraordinary game instincts.  I know just the guy to comment on the pins at Pumkin Ridge!  John VanderBorght where are you? :o
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Darren_Kilfara

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:All hail the ladies and Pumpkin Ridge...
« Reply #17 on: July 08, 2003, 11:37:00 AM »
That being said I am afraid the set up was too forgiving and may have handed the Championship to the short hitting player...how many times can you allow a player to lay up short of the green and have an easy chip...Kelly Robbins got robbed before the first shot of the playoff was ever struck but it made for great drama and was good for the womens game....

Um, is there some sort of law against the longer players laying up short of the green and leaving themselves easy chips? I thought that sort of thing pretty much defines "course management", which had as much to do with Lunke's win as her consistent putting. In what way was Kelly Robbins robbed? (She herself kept hitting irons and 3-woods off the tees toward the end of the round, exactly when she needed to be taking risks and challenging the fairways with her length.)

In any event, I agree with the general sentiment that this was an extremely watchable golf tournament. Lunke's lack of length did make for a very compelling spectacle - I find it hard to imagine her ever becoming an established star on the LPGA Tour, because she's just too darn short to compete week-in, week-out. But that just added to the general tension and drama of it all. Also, say what you will about the USGA, but in my opinion they sure as heck know how to set up a golf course. The ideal course setup, in my opinion, will produce a winner who makes quite a few birdies and about as many bogeys - trying to balance birdie and bogey around the fulcrum of par is critical - and will produce a field that makes a fair few birdies but has its mistakes (mental and physical) justly punished by bogeys and worse. When the USGA gets it wrong, it sets up a plodder's course of the fairways-and-greens variety - but even that is much more watchable than the usual "These Guys Are Good!" birdie-fest on the regular tour.

Cheers,
Darren

John_Conley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:All hail the ladies and Pumpkin Ridge...
« Reply #18 on: July 08, 2003, 11:46:00 AM »
My favorite Hilary Homeyer anecdote, especially poignant in the aftermath of the Open...

2001 - Kemper Lakes - #18 - USAPL

11 year old Michelle Wie hits D-PW!! to a green Curtis Cupper Hilary Homeyer required two woodshots to reach in match play.  I think Wie won.

Peter_Herreid

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:All hail the ladies and Pumpkin Ridge...
« Reply #19 on: July 08, 2003, 11:55:08 AM »
I can comment on the hole locations for the playoff...

As a set, I would say they were in more generally accessible locations on Monday, particularly when compared to Sunday's final round.  On the back nine placements, only #11 (with a very subtle back left hole) and #15 ( with the hole on the back on the side of a ridge) were really potential sucker hole locations.

My impressions were that, as a set of hole locations, these gave an opportunity for more birdies to be made by all 3 players--I actually would have expected Robbins to be able to take advantage more because of her length to attack some of the holes.

That was one of the all-time putting performances by Hilary Lunke this week.  

I would love to see a regular Women's Open rotation of Prairie Dunes, Merion, Plainfield, TCC or wherever else some have deemed to short to host a Men's Open.

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:All hail the ladies and Pumpkin Ridge...
« Reply #20 on: July 08, 2003, 12:01:50 PM »
Great tourney to watch - how much of a stud is Angela Stanford to drain long putts on 18 on consecutive days? Ditto for Hillary Lunke, draining a big breaking short putt on top of Angela's.

For Peter & JohnV:

Is 17 as easy as Johnny Miller continually made it sound? He seemed to really dwell on the funnel effect on the green.

How long is it to the end of the fairway on 18 from the member tees? Was the course set up longer or shorter than normal everyday member tees?
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Peter_Herreid

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:All hail the ladies and Pumpkin Ridge...
« Reply #21 on: July 08, 2003, 12:29:17 PM »
George:

The funnel effect on #17 never seems to help me very much!  However, with the exception of the front left, #17 green does have slopes on either side that will direct a ball to the center of the green.  With a center or center-back hole location (as during the Sat-Sun-Mon rounds), this does help get the ball to the hole. When they had the hole in the front left, there were some circus putts from behind the hole, though.  The right side of that green has tremendous slope to it, so any putt involving the right side is a real treat...

The key to #17 is getting the tee shot enough to the right side of the fairway to open up the hole.  It is not a hard downwind tee shot, but I spend a lot of time blocked out by trees left.

#18 was played from the typical member tees at 498-505 yds.  (The black tee is another 25-40 yds back)  I have always suspected that the measurement of that hole is on a direct line over the ESA (like a laser sight) or that the yardage markers are a little off, as I have hit drives I know go 230-240 yds, and still had the markers tell me I'm 290-300 yards to the hole.  It is a 175-180 aerial carry to clear the first ESA, and about 290-310 (depending on the angle) to the end of the fairway.  To get to the best spot on the low left of the fairway, the tee shot has to have a slight draw, or be hit on a line directly there, to take advantage of the right-left cant of the fairway.  As I know all too well, tee shots with a "slight" cut will deaden against that slope, or get pushed by the prevailing wind toward the bunkers and grass on the right.

For me, it is a maddening, frustrating hole that I haven't learned to play well.  I have seen everything there, from an eagle 3 to mid-teens--that part of it is fun, though, as no score is ever safe on that darn hole!

DTaylor18

Re:All hail the ladies and Pumpkin Ridge...
« Reply #22 on: July 08, 2003, 01:18:06 PM »
It was a fun tournament to watch.  I think most people that watched it that don't watch golf regularly, like my wife, were able to enjoy it becase they played more of a game like the average fan plays.  I was rooting for Lunke because her game resembled mine much more than Annika's does, except for the 11 wood in the bag.  Watching the Open yesterday, i couldn't help but think, how did Annika not win this thing?  Just goes to show that despite her wonderful game, if she had a better short game, she would be even more dominant.

I don't watch a lot of women's golf, but i was left with one major thought.  The great thing about their game is that they can play a major at almost any course in the world.  All of the great classics would be very compelling to see them play.  I think they could draw a wider viewing audience by playing events on courses like the ones previosuly mentioned, that PGA players have rendered obsolete.

mike_malone

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:All hail the ladies and Pumpkin Ridge...
« Reply #23 on: July 08, 2003, 01:38:32 PM »
 When they spoke of the previous playoffs they said the highest score by the winner was in 1976.Where? Rolling Green!!!
« Last Edit: July 08, 2003, 01:41:09 PM by mayday_malone »
AKA Mayday

Rick Shefchik

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:All hail the ladies and Pumpkin Ridge...
« Reply #24 on: July 08, 2003, 01:56:29 PM »
Before the Williams sisters brought power to the game, women's tennis was universally conceded to be a better, more watchable game than men's tennis. Perhaps that's where we are with women's golf right now. As Darren mentioned, the possibility of birdies and bogeys happening at any time is the kind of golf that keeps viewers glued to a tournament. Grinding for par after par or reeling off numbing strings of birdies seem to be the only two styles the men's game offers these days.

Rick
"Golf is 20 percent mechanics and technique. The other 80 percent is philosophy, humor, tragedy, romance, melodrama, companionship, camaraderie, cussedness and conversation." - Grantland Rice