Mike- Pebble is another that won't disappoint. Glad to hear you had a great time.  I guarantee if you get to play PB w/ B.H. that would also exceed any and all expectations.

BTW, that was a different Bob Huntley than our Bob Huntley, right?

Count me in for the Clorox outing @ PB, Tom.

If you could please have the jet meet me here in Farmington, I should would appreciate it. Thanx,
adam

Mike,

Now you see why Tom and myself say that the argument begins and ends with CPC and everything else can compete for second.  Your expectations cannot be higher and yet it beats them.  In my entire life I have only had three courses that I truly believed were classics on the way in the door exceed my expectations on the way out - CPC, Shadow Creek and just recently ShoreAcres.  Those are rounds to be treasured.

Adam, I've played Pebble several times-Cypress is much, much better-too many weak holes at Pebble.  From tee to green, the only course I've played that has as much shot value as Cypress is Bethpage Black (and for those who know me, that's my highest praise).

David, I agree completely, clearly the best course I've ever had the privilege of playing.  I have to admit to being somewhat disappointed with Pebble after the first time I played it (because of very high expectations).

Tom,  the driver was my caddie's call-I was pretty sure 4 wood was enough but he was right on every other club during the round-I hit a second shot with the 4 wood and was just short of the green but didn't hit it perfectly-a good 4 wood would have been perfect.

Mike:

The time I blasted driver over the left bunker, it was the caddie's call also.  Oh well, to thine own self be true.  He was just so right about everything else, he earned the trust... He was also way more focused on one of the other guys, which was cool given it was his first time... I should have known better to it was my fault.

Dan:

You're gonna get no argument from me re the greatness of the holes away from the ocean.  Just be prepared for a battle with Rich "Cypress is no big deal and would be a better course routed backward" Goodale.  

TH

Classic stuff Mike! Glad you finally got to play there.

Now, go to jetblue.com and bu a ticket for Long Island and see another GREAT one, and you will die a happy man--the National Golf Links of America.

Dan:

Look in the archives here for a LENGHTY battle we had re the merits of #16, and when exactly one would hit the exhilirating layup described by my pal Dave Moriarty.  Oh no, we will NOT go into that again.

As for all the rest, I'm with ya on the greatness of all you mention.  I just find the tee shot on 16 to be so damn inspiring, I'm never going to say it's anything but the greatest hole on this planet.

But we have discussed this many times before...

Tommy:

Take a drive up the coast and take us up on one of the MANY offers the nice benefactor has made for you to tour Cypress.  One of the many reasons we all want this to happen - besides the fact that you simply NEED to finally tour the Sistine Chapel - is I for one would love to hear your comparison/contrast between NGLA and Cypress.  I was very, very fortunate to play the two within a month of each other two years ago, and let me tell you, it's a tough decision as to which is the better.  Your take would be priceless.

Then once that's done, go to Mullen, NE and see one that just might top both of them.  Then you too can die a happy man (as if that's not gonna happen already!)  

TH

redanman:

Oh, I had high expectations all right... just not Cypress or NGLA or Sand Hills or Rustic Canyon expectations... read that to mean expectations re courses that we beat to death in here!

But playing the course with you, I came away as a Mark Fine believer!!!!!

Love the exclamation points.

Good luck with the tree crusade, btw.  That would be something if you succeed.

TH

Dan:

Be it equipment, muscles, whatever, you have changed the equation here because you're the first person I've talked to about CPC #16 who said:

a) the carry was shorter in person than he expected (it usually goes the exact opposite); and

b) he can comfortably reach it with an iron.

I've heard you can take it deep, but man that is REALLY long. That's cool - Shivas and Wigler figured it this way also (at least I think so).

If I could comfortably hit it with an iron in no wind, I'd think the way you do as well - no hassles.

Me, I can't see ever taking less than 3 or 4 wood.  And while I am short off the tee compared to behemoths like you guys, I gotta figure I'm longer than average.  So most people do look at it as a very heroic shot - one they're gonna have to hit their Sunday best to be able to make the carry at all.  Add that to the "scene" and just where one is standing, and well, you have one hell of a great golf hole.

But we said all that many times before.

In any case, a key point I agree with is that going left is no guarantee of anything.  One still has to pick the right line, right club, and then if one succeeds the pitch ain't an easy one.  Maybe that's why Dave M. liked the layup so much... it still required a lot of thought.

TH

In any case, a key point I agree with is that going left is no guarantee of anything.  One still has to pick the right line, right club, and then if one succeeds the pitch ain't an easy one.  Maybe that's why Dave M. liked the layup so much... it still required a lot of thought.

TH

Tom,

First, I beg to differ.  The player who choses to lay up is accepting a likely four on the tee.  While I agree that the tee shot still requires a good - not great - shot, the pitch to the green is a piece of cake for anyone who can get the ball air-born since the green is generous and pitched in the player's favor.  

Second, you and I both know DMoriarty liked the lay-up so much that day because the wind was howling from two o-clock!  Give the weenie a break

Regards,

Mike

Mike:

What I meant by not being guaranteed of anything is that the tee shot going left is no easy shot, no matter where you go... It's not like 4 is guaranteed going left, that's all.  Yes, the pitch shot won't be the most difficult if you succeed, but on that I am just guessing, having never been woman enough to have this shot.  

Dave M., if and when you read this, you know I love ya man and I am just pulling your chain.

TH

I sayeth:

1) That math looks correct to me;
2) the better golfer is the one who achieves the better score, can't argue with that;
3) the weenie factor / macho factor / I'm only gonna get one chance in my life so I am going for it factor is what justifies the higher average.

Seriously, even macho studs like Shivas and Wigler and myself conceded the wisdom of laying up, and stated that if we played this course that many times, or played it in competition, the layup left would be made quite often.

Where we give David crap is that this is a historic spot, and we have so few cracks at it, we just can't see the wisdom of laying up in our present reality.  Score becomes insignificant in that respect... the chance at immortality - getting one's mug on a wall in the locker room as one of the tiny handful who have aced the hole - is what drives the club choice.

TH

ps - the funny thing is, I am the weeniest of weenies myself when it comes to every day play... I lay up all the time where others just fire away.  Years of competitive golf does that to a man.  Just THAT tee, THAT spot, THAT chance at immortality... nope, I ain't laying up there any time soon, not so long as I can carry the ball 200 yards.  And even then I'd dunk one just to spite the golf gods.