[Steve_ Shaffer]

Sounds like a winner- wide angles, spacious fairways,high sand dunes next to the Persian Gulf.

Will the clubhouse serve good pastrami?

www.cybergolf.com/indexgenerator.asp?newsid=5819

[Paul Carey]

Sounds great and I bet Steve will deliver.  Here is a quote on the plan:

"In such a powerful landscape the desert is a key feature, but we don't want golfers to feel that they're always hitting the golf ball in and out of the desert," Smyers said from his offices in Lakeland, Fla. "So we set up the course with angles and wide, spacious fairways, some of them dual. Depending on bunker placement, hole locations, ground contours and the wind, there are all sorts of strategies for attacking the golf course."

[ANTHONYPIOPPI]

Steve:

I don't get the pastrami joke.


Anthony

[George Freeman]

Sounds like an interesting concept for Desert golf!  

As mentioned, the majority are usually target type courses due to the drastic differences between playable and unplayable ground.  I'm wondering if this concept will be fiscally sustainable due to the water that will be needed for the presumably large areas of turf and seeing that is a desert course where water is scarce/expensive.

I will be eagerly awaiting the final project to see how/if they pulled it off.  I certainly enjoyed Steve's work at Lochenheath.

[Kyle Henderson]

Don't expect any dogs on the course to chase away the fowl...

[J Sadowsky]

It seems like there are a lot of new courses in the UAE.  I wonder what the economic and environmental viability of these desert courses are.  I hope S/L consider the likelihood that freshwater will be increasingly scarce/expensive in designing the course.

[Kyle Henderson]

It seems like there are a lot of new courses in the UAE.  I wonder what the economic and environmental viability of these desert courses are.  I hope S/L consider the likelihood that freshwater will be increasingly scarce/expensive in designing the course.

The $$$ problem will be more of an issue when they run out of commodities to export (e.g. oil and natural gas). Until then, the elite of the UAE can afford to import plenty of aqua.

[J Sadowsky]

Yes, but

1) the energy fields are not going to last more than 20 years or so, and hopefully the golf course will last longer

2) even then, you want to lower margins in case the interest in the course wanes as competition increases, and you have to start competing on price

3) water is going to be more and more difficult to bring in to the region, both for economic reasons and political reasons.  Israel's attempts to make the "desert bloom" in order to have a strong agricultural economy backfired on both fronts, until they wisely moved their economy into a more Western, services/technology economy - hopefully the UAE won't make the same mistakes.

Even without all that, in today's market, an environmentally conscious approach at UAE will have substantial economic and marketing advantages over its competitors - not a bad place to be from a business perspective, no?

[Kyle Henderson]

Yes, but

1) the energy fields are not going to last more than 20 years or so, and hopefully the golf course will last longer

2) even then, you want to lower margins in case the interest in the course wanes as competition increases, and you have to start competing on price

3) water is going to be more and more difficult to bring in to the region, both for economic reasons and political reasons.  Israel's attempts to make the "desert bloom" in order to have a strong agricultural economy backfired on both fronts, until they wisely moved their economy into a more Western, services/technology economy - hopefully the UAE won't make the same mistakes.

Even without all that, in today's market, an environmentally conscious approach at UAE will have substantial economic and marketing advantages over its competitors - not a bad place to be from a business perspective, no?

Agreed.

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

Water is no longer an issue.  Paspallum grass allows them to use salt water which happens to be plentiful.  Sometime in the future, they may need to curb overseeding.  Also, they apparently are spending a great deal of money on desalination plants.

[David Druzisky]

Desert golf without the turf/water limitations/regulations?  Is it really desert golf?  Lets see, optional routes of play on sand near the beach.

[J Sadowsky]

Interesting

http://grove.ufl.edu/~turf/turfcult/ralish.html

[B. Mogg]

There are economies of scale with desalination plants.

I believe UAE have huge plants that pump out more water on a daily basis than they can use-hence golf. They could have smaller desalination plant but on a per m3 basis the water would cost that much more.

I believe that is why these courses are "water viable" - for the moment. If there is a huge increase in water demand for other economic activities maybe the golf courses will come under pressure.

[paul cowley]

There are economies of scale with desalination plants.

I believe UAE have huge plants that pump out more water on a daily basis than they can use-hence golf. They could have smaller desalination plant but on a per m3 basis the water would cost that much more.

I believe that is why these courses are "water viable" - for the moment. If there is a huge increase in water demand for other economic activities maybe the golf courses will come under pressure.

....I doubt it though, because by that time they might have enough development to provide the courses with an effluent/recycled supply of water.

[Jason McNamara]

1) the energy fields are not going to last more than 20 years or so,

Source, please.

[J Sadowsky]

Just what I hear from academics (correction: I just spoke to someone who said I was thinking 40 years, not 20 years), and I admit that is probably a conservative estimate.  Of course, its difficult to estimate - most middle eastern countries have about 80 years of proven reserves at current production, but energy requirements are likely to expand significantly - more than double over the next 10 years, I heard recently on tv.  

On the other hand, there are supposedly a ton of untapped oil sources in other parts of the world (but perhaps not in the UAE), so it all depends.  I do know that the UAE is trying to diversify its economic portfolio, getting into financial and services industries.   I wasn't trying to say that oil would be gone from the world in 20 years.  

And of course, we're not sure when the next energy breakthrough will be.  In 20 years, we might have tons of oil remaining, but due to alternative energy sources, that oil may not be worth anything.  Or it may be hoarded and worth more than diamonds.  Who knows.

Although, if the UAE sold oil at the same rate that Saudi Arabia does now, its provable reserves would expire in 20 years, according to wikipedia.

Sorry for bringing this convo way off point.  After her finals I can talk to my gf (she's in grad school for energy) and get this sorted out.  It's really not my area of expertise.

[ANTHONYPIOPPI]

So is nobody going to explain to me the pastrami joke?

Sad.

Anthony

[Bob_Huntley]

So is nobody going to explain to me the pastrami joke?

Sad.

Anthony

Anthony,

Could it have something to do with the Jewish connection?

Bob

[ANTHONYPIOPPI]

Bob

Could be. I guess since I'm not one of the Chosen People the joke won't be explained to me.

Anthony

[Jim Nugent]

Steve:

I don't get the pastrami joke.


Anthony

He may be suggesting that Jews might not be welcome at this course.

Justin -- betcha their oil reserves last a whole lot longer than 20 years.    

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