[Chip Gaskins]

In several of Tom Doak's explanations of what he did at Pacific Dunes included "capped with sand".  Specifically he said that the "entire hole capped with 3 feet of sand" on 13.

Can some one explain that process?  Is "capped with sand" the same as "regular fill"?

I am obviously thinking of a different type of sand.  There must be a mix of topsoil at some point?  Just plain old sand won't work for grass (at least good grass) growing, no?

[Philippe Binette]

100 % sand is good for grass, the game is born on sand dunes

[ANTHONYPIOPPI]

Chip:

Sand-capping means the guy or guys who put down the sand were wearing caps.

Anthony

[Jeff Doerr]

Chip,

If I remember right RTJ did Mauna Kea with crushed lava rock.

I am pretty amaxed to think of all that fill that was need to create the holes across the plain and to the cliff at Pac Dunes. It does make sense as you think about the cliff next to 16 at Bandon Dunes.

[David_Elvins]

100 % sand is good for grass, the game is born on sand dunes

I think Chip is right, you can't grow grass on pure sand without adding a stack of nutrients.  The cost is high and it isnt all that easy.  

There isn't much turf on the dunes at the beaches I go to.

[Tony Ristola]

Usually it's trucked in.
At Spanish Bay they set up a conveyor belt to eliminate trucks zooming through the area.

The use of the word "regular" is an interesting one. Eons ago I asked an engineer buddy of mine something along the same lines. He looked at me and said, "there is no such thing". Material has distinct properties.

 

[Philippe Binette]

100 % sand is good for grass, the game is born on sand dunes
I think Chip is right, you can't grow grass on pure sand without adding a stack of nutrients.  The cost is high and it isnt all that easy.

There isn't much turf on the dunes at the beaches I go to.

David:

I'm no agronomist, some supers of this site might confirm

the last two layers of USGA greens are 100% sand normally with some nutrients but you can grow grass without nutrients if needed...

Barnbougle Dunes is 100% sand (some fairways were capped) they did add some nutrients (I don't know how much and I don't know if it was on only the greens and surrounds) I doubt it was a lot.

I've heard Friar's Head capped of some fairways and didn't put a whole lot of nutrients in the sand.

The reason why there's no a lot of grass on the beaches surrounds is because there's no irrigation to sustain the growth of grass (fescues usually) on sand. Even with irrigation, growing fescue fairways or greens is a longer process, not necessarely to get some grass on the surface, but to get the grass dense enough to provide decent playing conditions. Once you get a fescue surface done, you can reduce the amount of watering substantially compared to other surfaces.

That's why before irrigation, in the golden age etc., it took sometimes 3-4 years and a lot of hard work to establish a course on sand.
 

The process of capping the fairways is to excavate a sand dunes on site and truck it to a fairway

[Ray Richard]

 One of my golf adventures involved a landfill course. The course was shaped three times; once at the landfill grade (the elevation that contained all the rubbish), once at the capping grade (the intermediate sand layer), and once at the final grade (using plantable soil- a sand and organic mix).

  The sand cap is a critical component to the golf course drainage, and it is a good transition  between the liner and the plantable soil. Sand is usually installed in a 24” layer over the geofabric liner that covers the rubbish. Sand is used because it drains well and it is usually cheaper than a loam or amended soil. Drainage pipe and basins can be easily installed into this layer. The only thing that really matters is the ability of the sand to percolate water, you can use a sharp sand that is mined then placed.

 Sand is a great filler for any subsurface problems, like ledge or other debris. You can also plant directly into the sand cap and supplement the sand with a strong fertilizer and organic amendment program after seeding.

[Steve Okula]

Straight sand can support good turf, but much better is to add 10-20% of organic matter. This allows the root zone to retain moisture, hold nutrients, and develop a population of beneficial micro-organisms. U.S.G.A. green specs call for organic amendments, not straight sand.

I would be intersted to know why Doak used a three foot layer of sand. Roots rarely go more than about 8 inches deep, nor do they need to.

What do you get with a three-foot layer that you don't get with a one-foot layer?

[Kyle Harris]

100 % sand is good for grass, the game is born on sand dunes

Philippe,

If you've ever walked on a beach barefoot during the summer, you can probably realize why 100% sand is NOT necessarily good for grass. It's difficult enough keeping soil temperature down without sand let alone when you have something that conducts heat so easily like silicate.

[Joe Hancock]

Here's my generalization, to go along with all the others that have posted(many of which I disagree):

Sand can be a terrific growing medium in certain climates and geographic locations.

Joe

[Kyle Harris]

Here's my generalization, to go along with all the others that have posted(many of which I disagree):

Sand can be a terrific growing medium in certain climates and geographic locations.

Joe

Joe,

I've modified my response a bit. But yes, you're quite correct. Bent grass and sand and some of the ultradwarfs and sand are two very different things. Same goes for Pennsylvania, Oregon and Florida...

[TEPaul]

I think a couple of early and total agronomic failures at both NGLA and Pine Valley probably proves you can't really grow grass for long on straight sand.

Apparently part of that is lack of nutrients as a growing medium and the other part has to do with the lack of straight sand's ability to retain moisture properly.

I don't know, maybe some amazing strides have been made in golf agronomy since 1911-1917 but something tells me modern agronomy hasn't exactly rewritten the basic laws of both botany and physics!  

At least maybe not to the tune of three feet of straight sand. Maybe they put three feet of sand on a hole to cap it and then put some type of nutritional binder on top of that.

[paul cowley]

Straight sand can support good turf, but much better is to add 10-20% of organic matter. This allows the root zone to retain moisture, hold nutrients, and develop a population of beneficial micro-organisms. U.S.G.A. green specs call for organic amendments, not straight sand.

I would be intersted to know why Doak used a three foot layer of sand. Roots rarely go more than about 8 inches deep, nor do they need to.

What do you get with a three-foot layer that you don't get with a one-foot layer?

Drainage .....three feet of fast perking sand allows for an adequate drainage layer above a less permeable one.....with or without drain pipe.

[TEPaul]

There's my man PaulC----he's back---and now everything should be cool on the eastern front again!

Where have you been amigo, out west warring with Poncho Villa again?

[Chip Gaskins]

At least maybe not to the tune of three feet of straight sand. Maybe they put three feet of sand on a hole to cap it and then put some type of nutritional binder on top of that.

TEPaul-

That is exactly what I was assuming as well.

So if you do need to add another layer of fill that has better nutrients, then do you shape the sand exactly like you want it (exactly) or do you just get it close and then shape the final layer of nutrient rich soil exactly like you want it?

Chip

[Kyle Harris]

At least maybe not to the tune of three feet of straight sand. Maybe they put three feet of sand on a hole to cap it and then put some type of nutritional binder on top of that.

TEPaul-

That is exactly what I was assuming as well.

So if you do need to add another layer of fill that has better nutrients, then do you shape the sand exactly like you want it (exactly) or do you just get it close and then shape the final layer of nutrient rich soil exactly like you want it?

Chip

Chip,

The process you describe is essentially how one constructs a USGA Green. Dig, grade each layer like the surface and apply grass and water.

[JohnH]

Here's my generalization, to go along with all the others that have posted(many of which I disagree):

Sand can be a terrific growing medium in certain climates and geographic locations.

Joe

I don't disagree Joe, but would chance to modify your statement by adding that sand can be a terrific growing medium with the proper amount of amendment in any climate or geographic location, save for the north or south pole.....

One of the reasons USGA spec greens do well is the perched water table created by the gravel layer below the 16-24 inches of sand allowing moisture to be retained better.  I can't comment on the three feet of sand used in Mr. Doak's instance, but hopefully there is a way sub rootzone to retain some moisture.  

[paul cowley]

JohnH....irrigation compensates for the lack of retention.

Hi T :)m.

Hi J ;)e.

[Joe Hancock]

Hi Paul,

Organic matter and all the goodies that come with it will build up over time.



 

[TEPaul]

PaulC:

It looks like you had a twitch in your right eye when you said HI to Joe? What's that all about? You know me I hate secrets I don't know about.

[Joe Hancock]

PaulC:

It looks like you had a twitch in your right eye when you said HI to Joe? What's that all about? You know me I hate secrets I don't know about.

It's part of our Sunday morning fellowship.......

[Mike McGuire]

The bent on the greens at Hidden Glen in SE Wisconsin was planted in 100% sand. Supers name is Scott Conley.

[Peter Nomm]

Our course in northern WI is completely built on sand, which is the prevalent soil in our area.  It is very good for growing grass because essentially at the beginning it is sterile and has no detrimental components to the young plant.  

But immediately with the planting of the seed comes the addition of nutrients to the soil, which obviously then becomes a continual process.  

What was really interesting is how we worked and worked during those first few years to produce the organic matter from the growing process (thatch) to create both a good playing base and to add stability to the soil and root system.

Now, seven years later, we work and work to regulate that thatch layer.  Too much, and the turf stays soft and wet.  To little and there is no grass.  I promise that as the golf pro I defend my superintendent to the highest degree.  There are no absolutes, and there is a lot of ART involved with the SCIENCE.  These guys are truly the unsung heroes of golf.

Another interesting note is that when we built the Chiricahua Course at Desert Mountain, we "mined" a huge area of desert just south of the 11th and 12th holes for ALL of the plating material (capping) for the golf course.  Grass will grow on just about anything, including raw desert.  Then is is just a matter of cultivating whatever base is chosen to promote the growth.

In either case of the sand or the desert (which was basically sand and very small gravel), both of them provide good drainage and allow the roots plenty of space to grow.

[JohnH]

JohnH....irrigation compensates for the lack of retention.

Hi T :)m.

Hi J ;)e.

I realize that Paul, thanks.  I subscribe to the less is more when it comes to irrigation.

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