[Steve_ Shaffer]

For the second year, golf course closures outnumbered course openings in 2007, the National Golf Foundation reports.

NGF has identified 113 golf courses, in 18-hole equivalents, that opened for business in the U.S. in 2007. During the same period, there were 121.5 golf course closures, resulting in a net negative of 8.5 courses. In 2006,  the number of closures outnumbered openings by 26.5.

"The development business has run full circle," says NGF vice president Greg Nathan. "Developers are now being more prudent about the decision to build, and are doing more due diligence on where to build, and at what price point."

Here's the rest of the article:

www.golfcoursenews.com/news/news.asp?ID=3875

[cary lichtenstein]

Steve:

I think a more telling number will be the number of developments that go belly up in the next 3 years, the number that change hands during that time as well.

Jupiter, Fl is totally developed out except for Jupiter CC which is a new housing development by Toll Bros with a Greg Norman course. I hear they have 11 models up for over a year and 3 to 6 sales. Don't know if those numbers are accurate or just rumor.

They sold out annual memberships for $3900 single, $4400 with spouse.

I wonder if others have similar stories in their neck of the woods

[J Sadowsky]

Half a golf course closed?  Or do they count a 9 hole course as .5?

[J Sadowsky]

PS in DC there are a few new courses set to open - Presidential, Lake Presidential, and Creighton Farms are the ones I know about.  I think two (private) courses closed last year, but I can't remember their names.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Cary,

As you know, the annual membership deal for a new residential golf development is a common thing on the east coast of Florida and elsewhere. Mizner(a Toll development) and Mirasol (a Taylor Woodrow development) have used this strategy until enough houses are sold to residents who buy the memberships. As far as Jupiter CC is concerned, I don't know how the house sales are doing but IMO the housing there seems to be geared to permanent residents. The townhouses there(at 600K+) do not offer a first floor master BR(but offer an elevator!) and the single homes do not offer a great room floor plan. As a winter resident once told me, "Who wants to furnish a separate living room that won't be used?"

My friend at Mirasol told me that there is a group of guys in the area who moved from Mizner to Mirasol and now to Jupiter once the annual memberships expired. It's a great deal.

[Joel_Stewart]

I wish they would have named the courses.  Is there a source for seeing what courses closed and why?

[John Moore II]

I think that this is mainly a response to the oversaturation of golf courses in many areas. In Raleigh, NC there are far more courses than is really needed in the area. And two have closed in the past 2 years, with another looking  to sell. In many places there are simply too many courses for them all to be profitable. And the ones that can't make money are closing. Plus, anymore, its very hard for courses not part of a housing development to survive, unless they have a well established, large membership.

[Joe Hancock]

Johhny,

That's correct. Most often,a course will remain regardless of opportunities to sell, as long as the profit margin of the business is strong. Remove the profit for a few years, or even try to run in the red and see how long it takes for the courses to put out feelers for buyers...often developers not interested in golf.

Joe

[John Moore II]

Of the courses that I know of in Raleigh that have closed, and I just remembered another one that closed in 2003, one is going to be a giant car dealership, I think one is going to be houses, and one is just sitting idle. The one that is thinking of selling will probably end up being a housing development, if it sells that is.

[Norbert P]

From the article . . .

  "A disproportionate number of closures were "non-traditional" facilities – either stand-alone 9-holers or short courses (executive or par-3). In 2007, they accounted for 43 percent of total closures but only 20 percent of total U.S. supply."

8.5 out of 50 states isn't a disaster - less than 1 course in 5 states. By the above paragraph, it sounds like a correction of feebler courses to newer and better (oy) courses.  We had an old course here in Portland called Top o' Scott that wasn't really bringing in much play ($) and developers took the land and built houses, with a new par 3 (27 holer -  William Robinson). Obviously, that's not an even trade but by the statistics it would register as a net of plus .5.  huh?
  I wish this article had more information on the types of courses that were closed.   I.e., were Resort courses up? Munis down? Private Club's even, etc.

 I want color pie charts!!!

[Allan Long]

Johnny,

Eagle Crest is probably the one from 2003 right? What are the other in Raleigh that have closed and the one up for sale? I'm guessing Wake Forest is among those...

[John Moore II]

Allan--yes, Eagle Crest is the one that closed in 2003, at least I think 2003, might have been 2002, it was closed when I moved to Raleigh in August 2003. Cheviot Hills on Capital Blvd closed in  May or June of 2006, and its the one that is to become an AutoPark. Wake Forest is the other one that closed, just recently this past year. Wil-Mar, just outside of Raleigh near Knightdale has had some interested buyers, but nothing for certain, its not sold yet, and the membership just renewed for the entire year on the promise they would not close prior to Dec 31, 2008. The City of Raleigh is sort of looking to buy the course, to have a municipal golf club. I would suspect that there may be some other clubs in the area on very small budgets as well.
PS-Meadowbrook Country Club just outside of Garner may have closed down as well.

[Sean_A]

Allan--yes, Eagle Crest is the one that closed in 2003, at least I think 2003, might have been 2002, it was closed when I moved to Raleigh in August 2003. Cheviot Hills on Capital Blvd closed in  May or June of 2006, and its the one that is to become an AutoPark. Wake Forest is the other one that closed, just recently this past year. Wil-Mar, just outside of Raleigh near Knightdale has had some interested buyers, but nothing for certain, its not sold yet, and the membership just renewed for the entire year on the promise they would not close prior to Dec 31, 2008. The City of Raleigh is sort of looking to buy the course, to have a municipal golf club. I would suspect that there may be some other clubs in the area on very small budgets as well.
PS-Meadowbrook Country Club just outside of Garner may have closed down as well.

Johhny

I hooked up with some locals at Wildwood Green last Easter for a game.  They seemed to think there was plenty of decent golf in the Raleigh area and lamented that there wasn't any obvious choice as the premiere golf course in the area.  They thought it was due to Pinehurst being an easy 1.5 hour drive away - no need to build really good courses with Pinehurst at your door step.  

BTW - I thought Wildwood Green was quite a good course (especially for about $25 to walk) and so far as I can recall it is only one of a very small handful of what I would call housing estate courses I have ever played.  I was amazed at how much the housing took away from the game especially with all the oob that it creates.  Still, if you haven't seen Wildwood Green check it out - you may be pleasantly surprised at the quality.  There must be 6-8 really good holes.  Beware though, the last time I played it took 3 hours to play 9 so I bailed on the back 9.  I would suggest paying for 9 holes and taking a view for the back 9.

Ciao

[Mike_Young]

The course closing/opening thing has been a little of a mystery.....We continue to hear how rounds are down and it certainly sounds that way yet at many private clubs they miscount rounds or cart sales unintentionally. Ex. a new proshop built away from the normal flow of golf etc...or a public course sells an annual membership and loses count etc.....BUT while courses may close I call BS on much of this decrease in rounds for one reason.....WHY ARE BALL SALES AT ALL TIME HIGHS EVEN WITH BALLS THAT LAST LONGER.....EXPLAIN THAT TO ME.....

[Peter Nomm]

Courses I know of that have closed are frankly not very good.  I would be curious to know the opinions of others that know of closures.  Would you consider any of them good courses?

And because of this, has the "average" golf course therefore gotten better over the years?

And Mike Young - the equipment is longer and the bad drives travel farther into the woods.  Ball sales are way up for me!

[cary lichtenstein]

The course closing/opening thing has been a little of a mystery.....We continue to hear how rounds are down and it certainly sounds that way yet at many private clubs they miscount rounds or cart sales unintentionally. Ex. a new proshop built away from the normal flow of golf etc...or a public course sells an annual membership and loses count etc.....BUT while courses may close I call BS on much of this decrease in rounds for one reason.....WHY ARE BALL SALES AT ALL TIME HIGHS EVEN WITH BALLS THAT LAST LONGER.....EXPLAIN THAT TO ME.....

Water, water, everywhere?

[Garland Bayley]

Ball sales? Here's an off-hand thought. As the rich get richer and the poor get poorer, you get less and less ball "recycling" and more and more ball consuption. You also lose players to the poor get poorer.

[W.H. Cosgrove]

North Shore Golf course was sold in Tacoma to a developer over a year ago.  

A battle royal has ensued over the rights of the developer to do what he wishes with HIS property over the wishes of the neighboring homeowners.  

Rich or poor this nation was built on the rights of property owners.  This discussion will change with the real estate markets and the economics of land and its development.  

Golf courses are closing because of business decisions. In another thread we discussed whether municipalities should be getting into the upscale golf business.  The problem with golf is the cost of doing business and the barriers to entry that places before new players.  Until the market balances those issues we will be in a reduction mode.  

Meanwhile the only viable alternative to low end recreation is the local government.  Convince the municipalities to construct affordable golf facilities, and then promote development on the upper end by providing infrastructure in the form of roads and sewers.

Until that happens the source of new players is cut off, the economics require high cost of entry and the sport continues to suffer.  Tacoma/Pierce county could have built a much less expensive golf course than Chambers Bay and provided greater opportunity.  Meanwhile, a private land ower is being prevented from developing his own land under North Shore due to governmental interference and ineptitude.  

I think I'll invest in something else!

[John Moore II]

Sean-I argee with the people you played with about Raleigh golf courses. There is not a front runner, but there are several very very good courses. The Neuse in Clayton, Heritage in Wake Forest, Duke in Durham and Finley in Chapel Hill. I don't say Raleigh in that sentence because Raleigh does not have a public facility better than Wildwood Green, which isn't saying much. There are some very good private clubs in Raleigh though, Raleigh Country Club is excellent (Donald Ross' last design) and Hasentree on Falls Lake is new and probably better than anything in the area.
--I had the same experience at Wildwood. Took 3 hours to play 9 and I quit, came back a few days later. I think they have some good holes, not sure I would say really good or great though.

[Sean_A]

Sean-I argee with the people you played with about Raleigh golf courses. There is not a front runner, but there are several very very good courses. The Neuse in Clayton, Heritage in Wake Forest, Duke in Durham and Finley in Chapel Hill. I don't say Raleigh in that sentence because Raleigh does not have a public facility better than Wildwood Green, which isn't saying much. There are some very good private clubs in Raleigh though, Raleigh Country Club is excellent (Donald Ross' last design) and Hasentree on Falls Lake is new and probably better than anything in the area.
--I had the same experience at Wildwood. Took 3 hours to play 9 and I quit, came back a few days later. I think they have some good holes, not sure I would say really good or great though.

Kenneth

I don't know, there are quite a few holes at Wildwood that I really like.  #s 2, 5 (though this could be better if they sorted the green complex out), 7, 9 (could be a load better without oob) and 13-16 is an excellent stretch of holes.  18 could be a lot better if the fairway was more spacious.  All in all, I think WG is very good value and I would play it in a heartbeat over that over-priced puffed up thing they call Duke - what a disappointment.

Ciao  

[John Moore II]

Sean-I agree with the holes you say, on the front nine. For whatever reason I can't remember any of the back nine, and I still have my scorecard, I just can't picture those holes. I do think that 5 and 7 are good holes, and I think 6 is good as well. Overall though I was not impressed with the club. I just never got a good feel. Duke I really enjoyed though. I played it all the way back on a windy day and it really tested me. I think it really has some good holes, expecially the par 5's. I would rate hole 7 at Duke as one of the best par 5 holes I have played. As far as value for the money, I can't really comment, I got exceptional value for mine, but mine was comped. Was Duke one of the best 5 courses I have ever played? No. But it might be in the next 5. It was a good course though, even though I went to NC State, so generally am not fond of schools that wear Blue.

[Bill_Ryzewski]

I would estimate that Inniscrone has a 30% of closing for good sometime in 2008.

[Sean_A]

Sean-I agree with the holes you say, on the front nine. For whatever reason I can't remember any of the back nine, and I still have my scorecard, I just can't picture those holes. I do think that 5 and 7 are good holes, and I think 6 is good as well. Overall though I was not impressed with the club. I just never got a good feel. Duke I really enjoyed though. I played it all the way back on a windy day and it really tested me. I think it really has some good holes, expecially the par 5's. I would rate hole 7 at Duke as one of the best par 5 holes I have played. As far as value for the money, I can't really comment, I got exceptional value for mine, but mine was comped. Was Duke one of the best 5 courses I have ever played? No. But it might be in the next 5. It was a good course though, even though I went to NC State, so generally am not fond of schools that wear Blue.

Kenneth

I seem to recall getting a bad feeling for Duke right out of the blocks.  I didn't care for the 1st with the fairway narrowing after turning the corner.  The second's shape is too similar to the 1st. The first spot of water is ruined by a dopey left bunker on 4.  In fact, I think the bunkering is dreadful and often detracts from the course.  The 12th is water feature disaster.  The 13th should be a driveable hole.  I don't like the water off the tee on 16 - especially as there are two bits of it.  To top it off, the drainage was poor!  

There were a few holes I really liked.  #9 strikes me as the best on the course.  The 15th is a good hole as well.  

Gosh, for a course I really disliked I still remember quite a bit of it.  However, I would comfortably place Duke at the bottom of my North Carolina list right along side Bald Head - which has a decent case for being more disagreeable than Duke!  

Ciao

[BCrosby]

These are sobering numbers. Remember they are against the backdrop of a population that is growing in both size and wealth. Not to mention that the population is aging, which means more people ought to have more time for recreation. But they don't seem to be playing as much golf.

As a percentage of the US population, participation in golf is declining. Even as that population has more disposable income. Sobering. That has to be at least one big (and troubling) reason for the decline in the net number of courses year on year for the last couple of years.

Bob

[Peter Nomm]

These are sobering numbers. Remember they are against the backdrop of a population that is growing in both size and wealth. Not to mention that the population is aging, which means more people ought to have more time for recreation. But they don't seem to be playing as much golf.

As a percentage of the US population, participation in golf is declining. Even as that population has more disposable income. Sobering. That has to be at least one big (and troubling) reason for the decline in the net number of courses year on year for the last couple of years.

Bob

Absolutely - and I really believe a lot of it has to do with the time spent playing golf.  I know, even as a club professional myself, I don't want to spend 4 or 5 hours out there to play a round.  With three kids, my time with them is worth more and thus I play less golf than ever.  

They are spending their time and money and other pursuits that they can either do as a family (which in golf you can but they mostly do not) or can do in a shorter amount of time.

It is inevitable that some courses will close.

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()