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Glenn Spencer

Is Ohio done, or was Ohio done?
« on: January 10, 2008, 10:49:48 AM »
Did technology knock Ohio from a pretty good seat as a Major Host? Was it the one course operations that Ohio has?Throughout history, the Majors have made a solid effort to get back every 8 years or so. Was the 93 PGA at Inverness the last hurrah? I am having trouble thinking of another state that has been hit so hard. Any crystal balls out there see Ohio getting another major?
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Sean Leary

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Re:Is Ohio done, or was Ohio done?
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2008, 10:51:48 AM »
Glenn,

I bet Longaberger gets a US Am ;)
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Tom Roewer

Re:Is Ohio done, or was Ohio done?
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2008, 10:55:22 AM »
NCR and MORAINE would be a great US AM venue.
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Phil Benedict

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Re:Is Ohio done, or was Ohio done?
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2008, 11:00:57 AM »
Glenn,

Maybe Inverness/Toledo aren't big enough/central enough as these events have grown in scale?  Although Tulsa in August isn't exactly a magnet for tourism.  In terms of touching broader regional political correctness, Oakland Hills achieves the same thing as Inverness.

What other Ohio courses besides Canterbury and Inverness have held majors post 1960?
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Matt_Ward

Re:Is Ohio done, or was Ohio done?
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2008, 11:01:24 AM »
Glenn:

Consider the following:

Muirfield Village and Firestone host two big time events each year and usually get all the top players -- most notably Tiger. What other golf rich state can say they have two events of this caliber each and every year and with the fields almost guarantee.

New York doesn't.

New Jersey doesn't.

Pennsylvania doesn't.

Illinois doesn't.

On the flip side - look at a few of the venues used previosly.

Canterbury GC is simply too small to host a future PGA / US Open event.

The Golf Club will likely never host such an event.

Is there anything of caliber in the Cincinnati area? Camargo is a fantastic Raynor club but won't host such an event.

That leaves only Inverness in the mix with the possibility of Longaberger a very remote possibility.

Candidly, I see Inverness in the picture but likely the timing will be stretched out beyond what has happened previously given the competition from a wider batch of clubs.
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wsmorrison

Re:Is Ohio done, or was Ohio done?
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2008, 11:01:54 AM »
The Country Club in Pepper Pike would make a wonderful venue, maybe not for a men's major but for a Men's, Women's, Junior or Senior Amateur as well as a Senior or Women's Open.  I'm not sure they'd want anything to do with a national tournament, but the course and facilities are eminently worthy.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2008, 11:02:16 AM by Wayne Morrison »
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Glenn Spencer

Re:Is Ohio done, or was Ohio done?
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2008, 11:29:13 AM »
Sean,

That would be a wonderful site, but no second course for the Amateur. ;)

Tom Roewer,

I have always believed that NCR and Moraine would make an excellent venue. I wonder if technology hasn't passed that situation by. NCR itself could the answer with the North course being a terror these days. My heart thinks it could handle it. The weather was awful at the 98 Mid-Am and I don't think it told us much. I know TEPaul was there. NCR did a beautiful job at the Senior Open. NCR has hosted the PGA, Women's Open, Senior Open and the Mid-Am. Maybe the Amateur is next.  

Phil,

Columbus-64 PGA, NCR 69 PGA. Firestone -75 Muirfield- Ryder Cup could count.

Matt,

Cincinnati has never hosted a major championship. I can't see it happening soon.

Could The Golf Club do it if they wanted to?
Is Scioto going to get back in the picture? 100th Anniversary of the Ryder Cup played there maybe?
« Last Edit: January 10, 2008, 11:51:58 AM by Glenn Spencer »
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John Kavanaugh

Re:Is Ohio done, or was Ohio done?
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2008, 11:33:21 AM »
How about Sand Ridge and her new older sister?  How close are these courses anyways?
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Glenn Spencer

Re:Is Ohio done, or was Ohio done?
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2008, 11:37:36 AM »
Quote from: John Kavanaugh on January 10, 2008, 11:33:21 AM
How about Sand Ridge and her new older sister?  How close are these courses anyways?

John,

I am tentatively scheduled to play out there this year. Sand Ridge is all part of the question that I am asking. Is Ohio done or can some of the non-traditional venues step in or what? Is NCR the new host? It seems that they are the most active recently? It makes me ill to think that Inverness could potentially not be hosting any more MAJORS. Once you host the Senior Open, can you ever go back, unless you are Oakland Hills?

Older-sister? Mayfield?
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Matt_Ward

Re:Is Ohio done, or was Ohio done?
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2008, 11:39:24 AM »
Glenn:

With all due respect -- you tap danced around my original point. Ohio ALREADY has two MEGA EVENTS in Jack's tourney and the one at Firestone.

Both events get ALL OF THE TOP PLAYERS -- EACH AND EVERY YEAR.

Name me another state with two or more events that match what Ohio folks get every year?

No doubt the "official" major is missing since Inverness but if that's the trade off I see the State of Ohio doing quite well.

In regards to a few other courses mentioned ...

NCR is good only for the Women's Open and Senior Open. Not the big time deal.

Scioto is a marvelous course but logisitically I see it in the same light as Canterbury.
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John Kavanaugh

Re:Is Ohio done, or was Ohio done?
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2008, 11:41:51 AM »
I believe that now a membership at Sand Ridge includes a membership at some old country club course and vice-versa.  I can never remember the name of the second course.  It is a model that scares me.
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Glenn Spencer

Re:Is Ohio done, or was Ohio done?
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2008, 11:51:19 AM »
Quote from: Matt_Ward on January 10, 2008, 11:39:24 AM
Glenn:

With all due respect -- you tap danced around my original point. Ohio ALREADY has two MEGA EVENTS in Jack's tourney and the one at Firestone.

Both events get ALL OF THE TOP PLAYERS -- EACH AND EVERY YEAR.

Name me another state with two or more events that match what Ohio folks get every year?

No doubt the "official" major is missing since Inverness but if that's the trade off I see the State of Ohio doing quite well.

In regards to a few other courses mentioned ...

NCR is good only for the Women's Open and Senior Open. Not the big time deal.

Scioto is a marvelous course but logisitically I see it in the same light as Canterbury.

Matt,

Tap-danced? What are you talking about? You made a truthful statement and I read it. The question is about majors. Those don't qualify, obviously.

Scioto? Do you feel that it is a logistically easier to host a Ryder Cup or a PGA? Is Scioto relegated to the Walker Cup then? You didn't answer my The Golf Club question.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2008, 11:52:26 AM by Glenn Spencer »
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Glenn Spencer

Re:Is Ohio done, or was Ohio done?
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2008, 11:53:46 AM »
Quote from: Wayne Morrison on January 10, 2008, 11:01:54 AM
The Country Club in Pepper Pike would make a wonderful venue, maybe not for a men's major but for a Men's, Women's, Junior or Senior Amateur as well as a Senior or Women's Open.  I'm not sure they'd want anything to do with a national tournament, but the course and facilities are eminently worthy.

Without question.
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Glenn Spencer

Re:Is Ohio done, or was Ohio done?
« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2008, 11:55:10 AM »
Quote from: John Kavanaugh on January 10, 2008, 11:41:51 AM
I believe that now a membership at Sand Ridge includes a membership at some old country club course and vice-versa.  I can never remember the name of the second course.  It is a model that scares me.

I have my own reasons, but why does that model scare you?
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Kalen Braley

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Re:Is Ohio done, or was Ohio done?
« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2008, 11:57:11 AM »
Glenn,

I think the point Matt is trying to make that many "great" destinations don't have 2 good PGA Tour events as it is.  To boot many states in the US currently get nothing in the way of PGA events much less a major.

So with 2 majors each year being non-attainable, Masters and The Open, why should Ohio have any expectation to get a US Open or PGA when they already have two better than average PGA tour events?  
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Glenn Spencer

Re:Is Ohio done, or was Ohio done?
« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2008, 12:01:26 PM »
Quote from: Kalen Braley on January 10, 2008, 11:57:11 AM
Glenn,

I think the point Matt is trying to make that many "great" destinations don't have 2 good PGA Tour events as it is.  To boot many states in the US currently get nothing in the way of PGA events much less a major.

So with 2 majors each year being non-attainable, Masters and The Open, why should Ohio have any expectation to get a US Open or PGA when they already have two better than average PGA tour events?  

Kalen,

I understand Matt's point and it CERTAINLY is true, but history has shown Ohio worthy of hosting majors. Golf has been coming to Akron for 50 years and they kept hosting tournaments. Somehow, this question turned into, does Ohio get too much good golf or deserve the tournaments. The question is about the clubs themselves. Can Ohio host majors anymore or not, in essence.
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John Kavanaugh

Re:Is Ohio done, or was Ohio done?
« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2008, 12:03:41 PM »
Quote from: Glenn Spencer on January 10, 2008, 11:55:10 AM
Quote from: John Kavanaugh on January 10, 2008, 11:41:51 AM
I believe that now a membership at Sand Ridge includes a membership at some old country club course and vice-versa.  I can never remember the name of the second course.  It is a model that scares me.

I have my own reasons, but why does that model scare you?


Smells too much like an arranged marriage.
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Phil Benedict

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Re:Is Ohio done, or was Ohio done?
« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2008, 12:04:40 PM »
Quote from: Kalen Braley on January 10, 2008, 11:57:11 AM
Glenn,

I think the point Matt is trying to make that many "great" destinations don't have 2 good PGA Tour events as it is.  To boot many states in the US currently get nothing in the way of PGA events much less a major.

So with 2 majors each year being non-attainable, Masters and The Open, why should Ohio have any expectation to get a US Open or PGA when they already have two better than average PGA tour events?  


I doubt that the USGA and PGA of America take it into account that Akron and Columbus hold big-time Tour events every year.  They are trying to promote their own organizations.  What do they care what the PGA Tour does?  Heck, the US Open is being played at a course this year where Tiger and Phil play every year.

However, Firestone is a former PGA Championship site so having a Tour event there the week after the PGA obviously  takes it out of the mix for a PGA.  In this sense Matt's point is valid.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2008, 12:11:06 PM by Phil Benedict »
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Kalen Braley

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Re:Is Ohio done, or was Ohio done?
« Reply #18 on: January 10, 2008, 12:07:17 PM »
Glenn,

While your intent may have been to ask if Ohio can host a major anymore, when you asked these questions in your original post it seemed to be "woe is us":

"I am having trouble thinking of another state that has been hit so hard. Any crystal balls out there see Ohio getting another major?"

Most states in the US would be thrilled to be "hit as hard" as Ohio has and have two top quality PGA events.  And many states would love to see a FIRST major in thier crystal ball, much less another one.  ;)
« Last Edit: January 10, 2008, 12:07:59 PM by Kalen Braley »
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Kalen Braley

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Re:Is Ohio done, or was Ohio done?
« Reply #19 on: January 10, 2008, 12:11:44 PM »
Quote from: Phil Benedict on January 10, 2008, 12:04:40 PM
Quote from: Kalen Braley on January 10, 2008, 11:57:11 AM
Glenn,

I think the point Matt is trying to make that many "great" destinations don't have 2 good PGA Tour events as it is.  To boot many states in the US currently get nothing in the way of PGA events much less a major.

So with 2 majors each year being non-attainable, Masters and The Open, why should Ohio have any expectation to get a US Open or PGA when they already have two better than average PGA tour events?  


I doubt that the USGA and PGA of America take it into account that Akron and Columbus hold big-time Tour events every year.  They are trying to promote their own organizations.  What do they care what the PGA Tour does?  Heck, the US Open is being played at a course this year where Tiger and Phil play every year.

However, Firestone is a former PGA Championship site so having a Tour event there may take it out of the mix for a PGA.  In this sense Matt's point is valid.

Phil,

I think the USGA and PGA do care because without the tour, their majors would mean a lot less.

In terms of why they went to Torrey?  With the great track record that both Phil and Tiger have had there, my guess would be they are hedging thier bets to have an epic US Open shootout that would be a ratings bonanza.  I don't think the USGA is immune to the allure of the almighty dollar.
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Glenn Spencer

Re:Is Ohio done, or was Ohio done?
« Reply #20 on: January 10, 2008, 12:24:36 PM »
Quote from: Kalen Braley on January 10, 2008, 12:07:17 PM
Glenn,

While your intent may have been to ask if Ohio can host a major anymore, when you asked these questions in your original post it seemed to be "woe is us":

"I am having trouble thinking of another state that has been hit so hard. Any crystal balls out there see Ohio getting another major?"

Most states in the US would be thrilled to be "hit as hard" as Ohio has and have two top quality PGA events.  And many states would love to see a FIRST major in thier crystal ball, much less another one.  ;)


Kalen,

You are reading into it. I am just trying to gain knowledge. Is Ohio done? It is my belief that Ohio has been hit hard by technology, just asking others thoughts. I would rather attend a US Amateur than go to Muirfield for the umpteenth time. Some of us are different. Muirfield doesn't interest me that much, nor does Firestone, although I haven't been to that tournament. For me, it is about majors an history or watching girls go after something that means the world to them like the Junior or Amateur. Watching the best in the world play for millions doesn't do it for me.
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Phil Benedict

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Re:Is Ohio done, or was Ohio done?
« Reply #21 on: January 10, 2008, 12:31:35 PM »
Just to second Glenn's point.  There is nothing like the buzz at a sporting event where you know the best players really want to win.  It doesn't matter what sport you are talking about.
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PThomas

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Re:Is Ohio done, or was Ohio done?
« Reply #22 on: January 10, 2008, 12:33:59 PM »
Hi Glenn

i wonder if Jack would ever let them play the Open at MV, letting his tournament be played at a different course for a year?

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199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

Tiger_Bernhardt

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Re:Is Ohio done, or was Ohio done?
« Reply #23 on: January 10, 2008, 12:36:53 PM »
Ohio State was done and done good. Tigers #1
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Glenn Spencer

Re:Is Ohio done, or was Ohio done?
« Reply #24 on: January 10, 2008, 12:38:24 PM »
Quote from: Paul Thomas on January 10, 2008, 12:33:59 PM
Hi Glenn

i wonder if Jack would ever let them play the Open at MV, letting his tournament be played at a different course for a year?



Hey, Paul


It happened in 87, sort of. Ohio would be fabulous in August. I see it as a PGA site more. Jack did win 5. Makes sense to me.

Phil,

You hit the nail on the head. When at a Firestone, I am thinking, I hope Thomas Bjorn wins, that would be good for his career and family. If at Baltusrol in 2005, butterflies would have been flowing on each of his shots. The difference is clear to me. Watching them play doesn't do it for me, it is what they are playing for that does.
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