[Adam Clayman]

Dr. Klein pens a nice piece which dares to mention the S word.

http://www.golfweek.com/commentaries/2008_01_04T09_45_06

Spirit

Well done.

Any thoughts?

If they can make a big deal at GD about Tiger's assumption that a 10 capper can't break 100. Should GW follow this bright idea?

[Tom_Doak]

It's a great idea, and kudos to Brad.  In the unlikely event the Tour picks up on it, they should make room for the top 25-30 players on the Senior Tour, who might be competitive under those rules.

I don't know if they have to go to the extreme of mowing the greens at different speeds, though.

[Tony Ristola]

Brad Klein knows Ross and golf but doesn't know hockey too well.

"Here was the stodgiest, most backward of all major sports..."

After the last strike that stodgy game made a rash of moves to transform it into a high speed carnival of hits and skill. A move that improved hockey 10-fold. Now a 5-1 lead going into the 3rd isn't a guarantee of victory as it was in the old clutch-and-grab days.

A similar game was played before a few years ago... in Edmundchuck or?

The idea of a retro event would do the tour well though. On a weekly basis.

[Matthew Hunt]

What about having it at Pine Valley, Cypress or Passitempio.

[John Kavanaugh]

Why doesn't Golfweek step to the plate and not cover events using modern equipment.  Or better yet, not take ad money from manufacturers or courses that promote the modern game.

I know they could never do that because no one would care but they could refuse to rate courses that are over 7000 yds.  That might actually do something for the common man without hurting revenue.

[Adam Clayman]

If there was going to be one predictable response, it was yours John.

The only retort that comes to mind is,,, why don't patriotic road builders refuse to build anymore, until we are weened off that carbon combustion engine?

[Matthew Hunt]

I know they could never do that because no one would care but they could refuse to rate courses that are over 7000 yds.  That might actually do something for the common man without hurting revenue.

Goo Idea but did you not state pravite clubs need 7000+ yd courses?

[John Kavanaugh]

Adam,

Asphalt is a byproduct of gasoline production.  Roads are built with gas tax money.  I support big oil.

[John Kavanaugh]

Mathew,

I also love modern golf equipment.  I am even proud of my new putter/wedge.

[Bill Gayne]

Unfortunately hockey can't return to the sites of the early years of the league. The Forum in Montreal, Mapleleaf Gardens, Boston Garden, Olympia Stadium, and Chicago Stadium are all no more. Only MSG remains from the original six. Even the greatest amount of tweaking and renovation these arenas could not survive in a modern era of sky boxes and unobstructed sight lines.

Fortunately, the tour and more importantly golfers can go back to many of the courses that built the game in the early years. Even though the courses may have been updated and renovated, the core of the game can still be found.

[John Moore II]

I really like the idea of retro golf as well. Perhaps since Tiger is such a big fan or persimmon and balata, he should require that all players use clubs and balls like that at his invitational...

[Tim Bert]

Mathew,

I also love modern golf equipment.  I am even proud of my new putter/wedge.

Did you take the plunge on the Odyssey putter wedge?  I posted a thread on those a while back.

What should hockey and golf really have in common?  Checking.

[David_Tepper]

Bill Gayne -

The old Madison Square Garden no longer exists either. It was open from 1925 to 1968 and was located on 8th Avnue@50th. The Knicks & Rangers used to play there.

I saw my first pro hockey game there and saw Laver/Rosewall play a pro tennis event there well over 40 years ago.

The current MSG, 7th Avenue @33rd., opened in 1968. Granted, that does make it older than the other NHL arenas of today.

DT

[Marty Bonnar]

I think we should probably draw the line at Happy Gilmore.

Actually, my thought would be that perhaps modern Zamboni'ed Ice might be comparable with, say, a Fazio, while old-style, unkempt Ice might be more akin to the rumples - and indeed bumples - of TOC?

FBD (not a Hockey 'expert' by any means) .

[Wayne_Kozun]

I think Brad is taking this a bit too far.  It is not like the players used old straight wooden sticks, old skates, etc.  They played outdoors because that evoked the romantic notion of how many folks played hockey as kids.

But the NHL started in 1918 and never played an outdoor game until a couple of years ago in Edmonton.

[Bill Gayne]

David,

Thanks for the clarification.

[John Kavanaugh]

Mathew,

I also love modern golf equipment.  I am even proud of my new putter/wedge.

Did you take the plunge on the Odyssey putter wedge?  I posted a thread on those a while back.

What should hockey and golf really have in common?  Checking.

Yes, I've played all winter using Driver, 5 iron and the 37 deg putter wedge.  I hit the P/W for every shot from 160 yds in.  I have two friends who have also converted.  

[Philippe Binette]

how about this version of the summer classic:

A public course (less tan 50$) is chosen the week before the tournament, different every year. It might be a 6200 yards course or 6600 or whatever...

no change on the existing course conditions, slow bumpy greens, good greens running at 7, bunker different on every hole

no caddies, players carrying their clubs

no range finder, yardage book (they can make one durihg the tournament)

max crowd: 500 people, so no blocked balls...

no scoreboards of any kind

the first tee is right there, play away...

purse: 100 player jackpot... minimum 5000$ per player (total amount doubled by the tour)

15 TV cameras...

[Jeff_Brauer]

Sounds like a more refreshing silly season event that what we have been getting. I would think that course in WV that Cupp restored to its original setting, playing in knickers, etc. would be the ticket. If not that, then Lester's redo of Greenbriar would be perfect.

[Tim Bert]

Mathew,

I also love modern golf equipment.  I am even proud of my new putter/wedge.

Did you take the plunge on the Odyssey putter wedge?  I posted a thread on those a while back.

What should hockey and golf really have in common?  Checking.

Yes, I've played all winter using Driver, 5 iron and the 37 deg putter wedge.  I hit the P/W for every shot from 160 yds in.  I have two friends who have also converted.  

Are you putting with it too?  Last I checked it was not available for lefties.  Can't wait for Mickelson to demand they manufacture it the other way.  I'd like to see the PGA players with the manhood to throw that in his bag amongst his peers.

[John Kavanaugh]

Yes, it is easier to putt with than a wedge because of the upright stance like a putter.  You just blade it.  Three clubs is the most I like to carry without a bag.  I rest them against my walking stick so they do not get wet.

Playing with a walking stick is my latest trend that I have started.  It will take a few years to catch on.

[CHrisB]

The hockey game was great to watch, but it wasn't because the players were using old style hockey sticks or because the goalies weren't wearing masks. They were still playing the modern game, but on a quirky and old style surface, fully exposed to the elements.

Golf already has its version of that--the British Open, especially when played at venues like Royal St. George's and St. Andrews. And it's no surprise that it is usually one of the most interesting tournaments of the year to watch.

[RJ_Daley]

I'm not sure if Brad is suggesting the retro for the benefit of the spirit of the players or the spirit of the fans.  I believe that Chris B., is on track to the nearest situation that could be comparable.  The only other reasonable retro thing that could functionally be viable is that the R&A require a competition ball during the Open.  

Making these golfers suddenly switch for one week to old clubs would be futile and screw up their finely tuned swings for perhaps weeks to come.  Why embarrass them just to get some jollies on a nostalgia trip?  

Unlike hockey, that has truly physically demanding and strength-endurance requirements, with basic stick handling fundamentals and skating technique that can go from surface to surface (even regular league rink ice varies greatly) golfers can't adjust to such radical venue and environmental inconsistancy so well as top hockey players.  Hell, several top golfers skip the Open because they don't like the more variable and usually harsh conditions of the links venues.

Maybe Tiger can take a rap in the mouth, spit out a chicklet and then get on the next tee and hit a great shaped shot, because he falls in that real athletic mentality mold, but I don't see most of the tour players having that 'old time hockey' spirit.  What is 'old time golf' spirit to the players?  A hot day, wooden clubs, carry your bag, and smoke ciggies?  

As for the fans sitting in the stadium for hockey... this was in Buffalo, not Augusta!!!    People there are acustom to winter rugged sports along with rugged spectating.  It is as different as a cheese steak or brat and beer to a pimento sandwich and coke.  What is going to make a golf fan feel tough, rugged, full of old time spirit? Can you imagine a pampered golfer like Sergio being forced to hit a persimmon as a challenge to his manhood?  Does that really get the golf fan's juices going?  The closest we have come to fun spectating in the sense of watching golfers toughing it out is something like the last President's cup, where Woody took a dunk.

We hockey fan's know the definition of "old time hockey" and get the loose connection of their tough guy hockey heros going retro to a venue that reminds them of the pond hockey of their youth.  Golfers and golf fans don't have a comparable, IMHO.

[Sean_A]

I'm not sure if Brad is suggesting the retro for the benefit of the spirit of the players or the spirit of the fans.  I believe that Chris B., is on track to the nearest situation that could be comparable.  The only other reasonable retro thing that could functionally be viable is that the R&A require a competition ball during the Open.  

Making these golfers suddenly switch for one week to old clubs would be futile and screw up their finely tuned swings for perhaps weeks to come.  Why embarrass them just to get some jollies on a nostalgia trip?  

Unlike hockey, that has truly physically demanding and strength-endurance requirements, with basic stick handling fundamentals and skating technique that can go from surface to surface (even regular league rink ice varies greatly) golfers can't adjust to such radical venue and environmental inconsistancy so well as top hockey players.  Hell, several top golfers skip the Open because they don't like the more variable and usually harsh conditions of the links venues.

Maybe Tiger can take a rap in the mouth, spit out a chicklet and then get on the next tee and hit a great shaped shot, because he falls in that real athletic mentality mold, but I don't see most of the tour players having that 'old time hockey' spirit.  What is 'old time golf' spirit to the players?  A hot day, wooden clubs, carry your bag, and smoke ciggies?  

As for the fans sitting in the stadium for hockey... this was in Buffalo, not Augusta!!!    People there are acustom to winter rugged sports along with rugged spectating.  It is as different as a cheese steak or brat and beer to a pimento sandwich and coke.  What is going to make a golf fan feel tough, rugged, full of old time spirit? Can you imagine a pampered golfer like Sergio being forced to hit a persimmon as a challenge to his manhood?  Does that really get the golf fan's juices going?  The closest we have come to fun spectating in the sense of watching golfers toughing it out is something like the last President's cup, where Woody took a dunk.

We hockey fan's know the definition of "old time hockey" and get the loose connection of their tough guy hockey heros going retro to a venue that reminds them of the pond hockey of their youth.  Golfers and golf fans don't have a comparable, IMHO.

Dick

Here, here!  The greatest game on earth is beyond compare with the likes of the country club set.

Ciao  

[Dan Herrmann]

My favorite sentence from Brad's commentary:  "Don’t let rules nerds ruin the game in the name of some abstract lawyerly adherence when what counts is the spirit of the sport."

Anyway - I think that Brad was pitching the idea of unabashed joy for the sport and trying a way to capture that for golf.   Golf has had its moments, but they're far too few.

I sure don't have the answer, but I know it's out there.  

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