[Mark Manuel]

Our club Superintendent sent this one along, it hit a little close to home.  Enjoy.

http://golfcourseindustry.texterity.com/golfcourseindustry/200711/?pg=82&pm=1&u1=friend

[Scott Szabo]

Mark,

I hope not all feel that way, but I know the super at our course has made similar remarks from time to time to me, off the record, of course.

Scott

[Joe Bausch]

I don't have any huge issues with the article, just thought it was a bit of piling on when you label people dimwits for calling a supe a greenSkeeper instead of a greenkeeper.  Geez.  Both are acceptable according to dictionaries I've checked.

[Lloyd_Cole]

If he wrote that and thought it was funny, rather than offensive, the writer is clearly not the smartest guy. It reads like a  sports radio call in transcript.

[Brad Klein]

Well, it certainly sounds like the way Pat Jones thinks and speaks.

[Lloyd_Cole]

Well, it certainly sounds like the way Pat Jones thinks and speaks.

Really?
He should be on the radio.

[Jed Peters]

Holy shit, that's EXACTLY the way our super feels.

At least, I'm pretty sure!

[Adam Clayman]

I loved it.

The only issue I would nitpik is about the "nuances" on fast greens.
Most of them have lost all their character. IMO, they do not necessarily distinguish the better player.

[Mark Dorman]

I think all supers feel the same way to a certain extent.  Who doesn't want people to fix more pitch marks or actually rake the bunker when they exit?  These are all things that I've thought about since my first days working at a golf course.

But calling people fat shiftless idiots, dimwits and the like, is  uncalled for if you ask me.  I mean, they (the players) are the ones who make the job possible.
No players = no $ = no golf course.

I'm still trying to decide what this guy's problem 'really' is. Because superintendents all over the world deal with these very same issues day in and day out.  Sounds like he's been in the industry for too long.  If he is just trying to 'inform' the average player about these issues, he did so in a very poor manner.
:thumbs down:

This guy gives superintendents a bad name.
(based on this one article of his I've read, if it was supposed to be humorous, he failed. It's one big RANT)

[RJ_Daley]

I agree that very little if anything is factually wrong as to what the typical/recreational clueless golfers do and expect at their favorite golf courses.  But, not all avid golfers are clueless.  Quite the opposite, I think.  Of course I've played with many GCA.com types, and generally they are dilligent and very in tune with not doing or expecting the themes of Pat's rant.  

Pat appears to have continued his long term vocation in the position of an advocacy surrogate to admonish clueless golfers where the super's need for more tactful where positive encouragement is somewhat dependent upon decorum so as not to jeopardise their jobs with such a rant.  

I think Pat did a fine job as Editor of "Golfdom" in his time.  It has always seemed that he had the super's best interests and elevation of their professional status at heart.

But, I think that posting this piece here, where it is really designated for a closed club audience of super's, does no one any good.  Pat used words to describe the truly clueless golfers we all know about, with language that super's should only use at the GCSAA smoker, after many hospitality room drinks are served and guys need to let off some steam from a hard year of meeting tough demands.  I don't think any super really wants to be in the position of creating an "us against them" mentality in oversight of these important issues of GCM.  The article is too harsh of language and is too confrontational to the golf public, (which I don't think it is meant to be) IMHO.

I'd say it would be a good thing to take this article/thread down.

[Bradley Anderson]

I would be embarassed to post this anywhere at my club.

Its not even good satire.

[Kirk Gill]

I'm certainly a customer, and not a super. And from my point of view the piece does not make me mad. Really, that article, with a few tweaks, could be about waiters' impressions of the diners at their restaurant or a diatribe by a cashier at Kohl's regarding the Christmas-present-buying public.

Indelicate, perhaps, but I didn't take it personally. In fact, sometimes you see players out there who act exactly how he's depicting, and saying the exact kind of things the author writes about. No biggie. I wouldn't post it either, but not because it's offensive, just because it's not that funny, or satirical, or truly illustrative of anything.

Nothing personal to the author, just my take is all.

[RJ_Daley]

At the risk of bringing the issue back from years of buried by gones, this article reminds me of the firestorm of the "Dumb and Dumber" piece written by another golf writer of high regard, who truly loves and respects the role of superintendents, but with a little off beat humor got a lot of good people in the industry's feelings hurt.  It was misplaced and misspoken passion that had all the right intentions at heart, but went over the top in language.  If I'm not mistaken, that article in question by an esteemed writer also appeared in "Golfdom", a closed circuit sort of trade mag with a superintendent audience, many of whom I believe took it wrong.

[Kyle Harris]

My thinking is that people who understand that bunkers may not be perfect all the time, walk or follow cart restrictions, repair ball marks and understand how the green budget money is spent won't be offended by the article at all.

It's a difference of perspective - a golfer sees a golf hole for one 15 minute span out of the day, while a superintendent is responsible for that hole 24 hours a day, 7 days a week...

[Walt_Cutshall]

It would have made it's point better without resorting to calling people "morons," "knuckleheads," etc.

[Kalen Braley]

I'm really curious on this one...was his intended audience end user golfers or supers?  Because as has been said above, I find it hard to believe this was meant for anyone but supers and equivilants who would get a good laugh out of it.

[Ray Richard]

I recall hearing most of those points raised, in a comfy lounge, after a golf supers monthly association meeting.

[Lloyd_Cole]

My thinking is that people who understand that bunkers may not be perfect all the time, walk or follow cart restrictions, repair ball marks and understand how the green budget money is spent won't be offended by the article at all.

It's a difference of perspective - a golfer sees a golf hole for one 15 minute span out of the day, while a superintendent is responsible for that hole 24 hours a day, 7 days a week...

Kyle

Then you'd be wrong.
I'm not offended by the sentiment. I'm offended by the pathetic attempt at humour. It demeans its intended audience just as much as its targets.

[Pat Brockwell]

There are two kinds of superintendents that feel just like Pat Jone's article; those that are in other jobs now, and those that will soon be in other jobs.  The rest of us got over it along time ago and just cope as best we can with the occassional passive/aggressive maintenance decision.  The passive/sarcastic route is limited.  Wasn't Pat Jones a super once?  Mike M, I was already here when I saw your batbeam.

[Kyle Harris]

My thinking is that people who understand that bunkers may not be perfect all the time, walk or follow cart restrictions, repair ball marks and understand how the green budget money is spent won't be offended by the article at all.

It's a difference of perspective - a golfer sees a golf hole for one 15 minute span out of the day, while a superintendent is responsible for that hole 24 hours a day, 7 days a week...

Kyle

Then you'd be wrong.
I'm not offended by the sentiment. I'm offended by the pathetic attempt at humour. It demeans it's intended audience just as much as it's targets.

Golf Course Industry Magazine is typically for golf course superintendents and general managers.

I've heard far worse descriptors used for people by some of those people.

[Ken Moum]

Wasn't Pat Jones a super once?

I'm pretty sure he wasn't ever a superintendent, but he did work for GCSAA about 15 years ago.

Ken

[Jim Thompson]

This is pretty normal for the last two weeks of September in these parts.

[Tommy Williamsen]

I realize that supers have a difficult---The fairways are too soft, the fairways are too hard.  The rough is too deep and uneven.  The greens don't hold and are too fast/slow.  The sand traps,oops bunkers are inconsistent.  We had a super for twenty years, who was a fine man but was fired.  He got a little complacent was the rap.  Probably true but it was sad to see him go and now he is working in a different field.

You know what, we all have similar problems.  My son is an attorney and is constantly second guessed.  

My daughter teaches at highly rated college and her students get upset when she gives tests rather than papers or papers when she gives tests.  She is not available when they want her and spends too much time researching. She doesn't publish enough and not in the right journals etc.

I have been an ordained Lutheran pastor for 35 years and of the 1500 folks in my church at least 100 know they can do my job as well or better, or that I am a heretic or have a job where I only work one day a week.. They are irritated when I am out visiting because I am not in the office and bummed because I am in the office when I should be out visiting.  Guess what, sometimes they are right and sometimes they are not. Well, its just tough luck Tommy. It all goes with the job.  they are entitled to their opinions.  Sometimes all I have to do is listen and say thanks for your thoughts.  sometimes I say, "your are right.  I think I'll rethink what you suggests.  All they really want is for me to love them

We all have jobs where we are second guessed.  I suppose we can call them names but maybe we could be mature and not spend so much time bellyaching.

[Joe Bausch]

Tommy:  Amen.  

[Steve Okula]

Guess what, sometimes they are right and sometimes they are not. Well, its just tough luck Tommy. It all goes with the job.  they are entitled to their opinions.  Sometimes all I have to do is listen and say thanks for your thoughts.  sometimes I say, "your are right.  I think I'll rethink what you suggests.  All they really want is for me to love them

I'm a GCS at a private club. I understand all your saying, but I find it laughable that the members here would want me to love them.

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