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Dan Kelly

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Top 50 Golf Cities in America?
« on: November 28, 2007, 04:18:31 PM »
Yet another dumb ranking -- this one from Golf magazine.

See http://www.golf.com/golf/special/article/0,28136,1681989,00.html

You're gonna love #49!

Bicker among yourselves.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2007, 04:18:55 PM by Dan Kelly »
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"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

wsmorrison

Re:Top 50 Golf Cities in America?
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2007, 04:22:40 PM »
Even with the following suspect criteria, the results are controversial:

1. Weather: How much sun, rain, snow, etc.

2. Affordability: Median green fees of public courses, in relation to the median household income

3. Quality of courses: The best courses in the best overall condition

4. Accessibility: The number of golfers in relation to quality public courses

5. Number of courses designed by esteemed architects

6. Availability: Public facilities as a percent of total facilities (the higher the better)

7. Crowdedness: The number of rounds in relation to the number of public courses and weather
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JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Top 50 Golf Cities in America?
« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2007, 04:25:05 PM »
Wayne,

How could you bite on this garbage and not on the C&C / Raynor love affair?

Dan,

Take no offense to my referring to this as "garbage", clearly you agree...
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Dan Boerger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Top 50 Golf Cities in America?
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2007, 04:25:47 PM »
You nailed it ... #49 is a hoot.

This makes me wonder if "Golf Magazine" is attempting to increase profits by forgoing all copy/editorial review prior to actual print production.

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"Man should practice moderation in all things, including moderation."  Mark Twain

Doug Wright

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Top 50 Golf Cities in America?
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2007, 04:26:26 PM »
Quote from: Dan Kelly on November 28, 2007, 04:18:31 PM
Yet another dumb ranking -- this one from Golf magazine.
Bicker among yourselves.

Correct Dan, really dumb. Not worth bickering about.
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Twitter: @Deneuchre

Tom Huckaby

Re:Top 50 Golf Cities in America?
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2007, 04:27:57 PM »
As I look at this... and the criteria... I am absolutely amazed that San Jose (my home) is rated so high.  Yes we have good weather, but outside of that this is golf hell.  Every decent course is packed, many are way way overpriced, private clubs charge obscene fees....

The rest of the country must really really suck.

Oh, but then I read that somehow Pleasanton counts as being in San Jose... yeah, stretch the geography far enough and decent courses can be found.

This is a pretty silly list.

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JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Top 50 Golf Cities in America?
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2007, 04:28:59 PM »
I'm actually only wondering if they think Long Island is part of Pennsylvania...by their use of the dash connecting inter-city areas and inter-state cities and the comma separating the city names from the state names, it appears so...
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Matt_Ward

Re:Top 50 Golf Cities in America?
« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2007, 04:29:55 PM »
First off -- one has to account for access. The NYC metro area is home to the best private -- but in terms of public offerings the pickings are just not in the same league.

One other quick thought -- Chicago public golf is no less than a top 10 pick. Ditto the qualities of Denver / Aurora being waaaaaaaaaaaaay tooooooooooo low.

When I look at the overall listing I have to wonder if the folks at Golf Mag simply had staffers throw darts at a large map of the USA and picked the winners from where they landed. ;D
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Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Top 50 Golf Cities in America?
« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2007, 04:32:47 PM »
Quote from: Doug Wright on November 28, 2007, 04:26:26 PM
Quote from: Dan Kelly on November 28, 2007, 04:18:31 PM
Yet another dumb ranking -- this one from Golf magazine.
Bicker among yourselves.

Correct Dan, really dumb. Not worth bickering about.

I know.

I posted this in a moment of extreme weakness! (Now that I've sold the bar, I don't get enough exposure to dumb bickering.)

I was kinda wondering what Joshua Crane would think of the methodology....
« Last Edit: November 28, 2007, 04:34:54 PM by Dan Kelly »
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"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

Tom Huckaby

Re:Top 50 Golf Cities in America?
« Reply #9 on: November 28, 2007, 04:36:40 PM »
The only possible way to make sense of this is that weather accounted for a HUGE percentage of the total evaluation.  Put in that context, well no offense to my friends out east, but we own you.

 ;D
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wsmorrison

Re:Top 50 Golf Cities in America?
« Reply #10 on: November 28, 2007, 04:37:20 PM »
Jim,

I thought my avoidance of the C&C/Raynor thread would irritate more than my participation, hence my decision  ;D
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jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Top 50 Golf Cities in America?
« Reply #11 on: November 28, 2007, 04:37:57 PM »
ther are more good golf courses in Bethpage New York than all of Atlanta.
There are more great golf courses in Southampton than in the state of Georgia. (and I'm from georgia)
That's as stupid an article as I've seen.

And don't give me the nonsense that the courses in Southampton are private because the article about Atlanta hangs its' hat by naming mainly private courses (which aren't that great) in the Atlanta area.
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JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Top 50 Golf Cities in America?
« Reply #12 on: November 28, 2007, 04:39:53 PM »
Quote from: Tom Huckaby on November 28, 2007, 04:36:40 PM
The only possible way to make sense of this is that weather accounted for a HUGE percentage of the total evaluation.  Put in that context, well no offense to my friends out east, but we own you.

 ;D


Huck,

You can have this one...
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Tom Huckaby

Re:Top 50 Golf Cities in America?
« Reply #13 on: November 28, 2007, 04:41:27 PM »
JES:  I always enjoy these "which area has the best courses" conversations during the months from November through March.  It's kinda tough to support a course buried in snow.  But somehow you guys find a way.....

 ;D
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JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Top 50 Golf Cities in America?
« Reply #14 on: November 28, 2007, 04:44:24 PM »
I'm taking the high road this winter...for now!
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George Pazin

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Re:Top 50 Golf Cities in America?
« Reply #15 on: November 28, 2007, 04:44:25 PM »
How can you guys dispute a list where Pittsburgh(#35) romps all over Philly (#42)?
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Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Matt_Ward

Re:Top 50 Golf Cities in America?
« Reply #16 on: November 28, 2007, 04:46:52 PM »
George:

Keep this in mind -- if the listing were only looking at public courses then the Steel City has it over the City of Brotherly Love.
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George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Top 50 Golf Cities in America?
« Reply #17 on: November 28, 2007, 04:48:53 PM »
Man is that a sad statement of Philly public golf!

Do they have public golf in Philly? I thought once you paid your local taxes you were automatically swept into some Flynn masterpiece.
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Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Rick Shefchik

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Top 50 Golf Cities in America?
« Reply #18 on: November 28, 2007, 04:52:39 PM »
From the web site:

We had the NGF's research arm analyze the 50 largest metropolitan areas in the U.S. We then graded each on:

1. Weather: How much sun, rain, snow, etc.

2. Affordability: Median green fees of public courses, in relation to the median household income

3. Quality of courses: The best courses in the best overall condition

So you had to be in the top 50 population areas to make the list. Then they shuffled them up. Which would explain, I guess, the absence of places like Tucson and Duluth.

I'm joking about Duluth. I think it was Golf Digest that declared my home town America's best golf town a few years ago. Even if you include Northland (private), it was a stunningly bad choice. There is no other course besides Northland that you'd ever want to play, the weather is abysmal, and it's still tough to get a tee time. (That said, a round at Northland in August is usually as close to golf heaven as you can get in the Midwest.)
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"Golf is 20 percent mechanics and technique. The other 80 percent is philosophy, humor, tragedy, romance, melodrama, companionship, camaraderie, cussedness and conversation." - Grantland Rice

Dan Kelly

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Re:Top 50 Golf Cities in America?
« Reply #19 on: November 28, 2007, 05:01:55 PM »
Quote from: George Pazin on November 28, 2007, 04:48:53 PM
Do they have public golf in Philly? I thought once you paid your local taxes you were automatically swept into some Flynn masterpiece.

LOL.
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"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

Tim Leahy

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Re:Top 50 Golf Cities in America?
« Reply #20 on: November 28, 2007, 06:07:04 PM »
Quote from: Tom Huckaby on November 28, 2007, 04:27:57 PM
As I look at this... and the criteria... I am absolutely amazed that San Jose (my home) is rated so high.  Yes we have good weather, but outside of that this is golf hell.  Every decent course is packed, many are way way overpriced, private clubs charge obscene fees....
The rest of the country must really really suck.
Oh, but then I read that somehow Pleasanton counts as being in San Jose... yeah, stretch the geography far enough and decent courses can be found.
This is a pretty silly list.

I am with you Tom, ranking Denver behind Sacto and San Jose is a joke. I live in Sacto and although there are many courses at low rates and the weather is good at least 10 months out of the year for golf, the quality of the public golf doesn't compare with Denver even with the weather limitations. And how does Vegas make this list at all with the prices of golf in that area? You sure can't put Vegas ahead of Montery on any criterion except night life.
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Kalen Braley

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Re:Top 50 Golf Cities in America?
« Reply #21 on: November 28, 2007, 06:40:07 PM »
This is a joke.  They list fremont as apart of San fran and Fremont only has one 9 holer course with some absurd holes....

And to not include Spokane and have Salt Lake so low...these guys are clearly smoking the peyote....

Trust me Huck, I've lived in the bay area and public golf in Spokane and SLC is better and you get it for a way smaller price.
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Andy Troeger

Re:Top 50 Golf Cities in America?
« Reply #22 on: November 28, 2007, 06:42:11 PM »
They only listed the 50 largest cities and also did not include some decent golf areas through that process. Albuquerque for example wasn't even on the list since its probably between 50--70 on city size. GD has tried this type of ranking too and I didn't get it then either.
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Craig Van Egmond

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Re:Top 50 Golf Cities in America?
« Reply #23 on: November 28, 2007, 07:19:24 PM »
Seattle-Tacoma-Bellevue is number 6!!   Yikes!  

I know the golf scene there has improved over the last 10 years, but that's crazy talk. :)
« Last Edit: November 28, 2007, 07:24:24 PM by Craig Edgmand »
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Tim Bert

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Re:Top 50 Golf Cities in America?
« Reply #24 on: November 28, 2007, 10:34:23 PM »
I've lived in #8, #25, #39, and #50 on the list.  I thought the most enjoyable golf of those four was in #50.  Maybe Golf Magazine's list was a quiest jab at Brad Klein.  They probably found it amusing to rank his home town dead last.

I can't believe that Nashville is #25 on the list.  Those familiar with the market forewarned me that the area was an architectural wasteland.  It's not quite that bad, but there certainly aren't a lot of good options around town.

They must have seriously taken criteria #1, 2, and 3 and judged the cities in that order.  It appears that weather was a bigger factor than quality golf based on my dwellings.
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