[Tommy Williamsen]

The first time I played the Old Course I am glad I took a caddy.  He would tell me to hit it there or over here because there is a bunker out 220 yards done the right side.  There were all kinds of bunkers that you can't see.  In some ways it is endearing.   In some ways it is is not.

The reason I bring this up is that I rarely see this feature in new courses.  I suspect that an architect would be shot if this were done.  Are there courses that have blind bunkers?  Is this a feature that should be used more?  I'd like to see it once in a while.

[RSLivingston_III]

The Old can't really be played your first time around. It requires a lot of experience that few will be able to get.
i have not had the chance to play the course in reverse but I understand that all the bunkering is visible. With the reversing of the course the blindness of the bunkering happened. Next time when you get to whatever green you are playing at TOC, have a look back toward the tee.

[Richard_Cutler]

The original bunkers on the old links courses were the hollows in the ground that the sheep made while sheltering from the wind. These were certainly not all visible from the first teeing grounds layed out by the early course makers. On lots of sites we strive for traditional features and values yet blind bunkers are always a big no no. I have lots of memories of earth moving and shaping just to so we can see the top 10-12 inches of a revetted face from the tee. If strategy calls for a bunker and the existing landform tells us it should be blind then blind it should be. Many of the bunkers on the east coast scottish links are blind so why, when building in a "traditional links" style do we move heaven and earth to make bunkers visible. Course guides can keep the uninitiated informed.

[Mark Smolens]

As I recall, I found a number of "hidden" bunkers playing Southerness in a driving rainstorm.  Perhaps it was the rain on my glasses that blinded me.  After a couple of minutes of bitching and moaning about the lack of fairness, Mike (my friend and pro) said, "who says it's supposed to be fair?"  Even if you don't know it's there, you will probably remember that hidden bunker the next time you play.

[Greg Krueger]

I think it is fun when there are blind shots and hidden hazards,
to a point. I am sure it has been said on this sight many times
that if TOC was built today the architect would be lambasted!
But I think we need more of it than what we have been seeing
lately.

[Marty Bonnar]

i have not had the chance to play the course in reverse but I understand that all the bunkering is visible.

Ralph,
not completely correct, but certainly many of the bunkers which are invisible on the 'normal' routing become visible on the reverse. There's loads of them out there which just don't really come into play normally. The ones I've walked by for many years thinking  "what on earth is THAT doing there?" suddenly figure very large indeed in the course of a reverse round. The Revtoc is definitely something anyone who has played the normal route should try at least once in their life.

What is also true however, is that MANY of the GREENS are invisible on the Reverse too!

Eek!

FBD.

[Tommy Williamsen]

What courses, if any, have you found with bunkers hidden from view from the tee?

[Mike_Cirba]

What courses, if any, have you found with bunkers hidden from view from the tee?

Tommy,

You need to visit Lederach GC north of Philadelphia by Kelly Blake Moran.

You will definitely find blind bunkers.    

I love the course but it's certainly one that gets strong reactions.

[Doug Ralston]

Sounds more like bunkers I don't want to see!

Doug

[Peter Zarlengo]

William Flynn, From 1927:

'A conceled bunker has no place on a golf course because when it conceled it does not register on the player's mind as he is about to play the shot and thus loses its value.  The best-looking bunkers are those that are gouged out of faces or slopes, particularly when the slopes face the player. They are much more effective in that they stand out like sentinels beckoning the player to come on or keep to the right or left."

[Adam Clayman]

The best blind bunkers are like the one behind the 14th green at Wild Horse. A sort of gathering HOW DO YOU DO for the aggresive player who misses long.

Pete Dye will also use little blind pot bunkers in similar locations on some of his holes.
 
Even Stanely Thompson used some of these bunkers long of the green at Banff. I'm having a hard time recalling if more than one was blind.

How about Old Seth Raynors Moat? That sure look at least semi-blind.

Jim Engh had some hidden black beauties at Hawktree. They weren't completely blind from every angle, but certainly from certain angles they were.


 

[TEPaul]

I'll give you a few examples of blind bunkers on a course that seems remarkably respected, NGLA, and how strategically effective they all are:

Hole #1:
There is a set of totally blind bunkers left on #1 that can catch a conservative iron tee shot incredibly easily on what many players seem to think is the right line---it isn't!  

Hole #3:

The blind bunker short of the green in what would otherwise be a pretty easy blind run-on shot to the green.

Hole #7:

A blind bunker that's around the conservative tee shot line.

Hole #9:

The blind nest of bunkers down the left side on the tee shot.

All these bunkers are blind and just remarkably effective strategically.

There are other blind bunkers on NGLA but the ones above I think are the most effective. It shows me that blind bunkers have a very fine strategic use and that the generlization in modern golf that blind bunkers should never be used is somewhat thoughtless.

[wsmorrison]

Tom,

Speaking of NGLA, why do you think some of the sand areas are convex?  We saw a number of these  out there when you were studying the 7th green.  They are the opposite of hidden bunkers.  Maybe they were meant to weigh more on the player's mind.  Is there anything about their placement that works better as above ground sandy mounds rather than scooped out bunkers?  

I can see the point of having a mound fronting 17 green as it obscures the green from certain locations on the fairway, but why the sandy top?  Something about today's mound is not original, right?  Was it higher in the past?  Given the relative ease of recovery from these convex sand areas, especially when built, what might have been Macdonald's thinking?

How do they not blow away?  I think the particles might be a lot larger on those mounds and that might keep them intact.  

[Adam Clayman]

One of the more thoughtful bunkers built recently is what's called the  reverse bunker on Ballyneal's 13th. I describe it like an Iceberg. Where you can only see the top ten percent.



It my be hard to makeout, but the reverse bunker is just to the right of the first bunker seen left center of the fairway.

[Tommy Williamsen]

What courses, if any, have you found with bunkers hidden from view from the tee?

Tommy,

You need to visit Lederach GC north of Philadelphia by Kelly Blake Moran.

You will definitely find blind bunkers.    

I love the course but it's certainly one that gets strong reactions.

Mike, I have heard great things about Lederach.  I will have to make it a point to get up there this spring.

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