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Mark_Rowlinson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Best 2nd courses
« on: November 24, 2007, 07:26:29 AM »
You turm up hoping to play a round at a top-class course and are told that the main course is closed for the day, but that you may play the second course. At which clubs would you be least disappointed (perhaps equally happy) to play the second course?

Royal Melbourne East? Winged Foot East? Sunningdale New? St Andrews New? Olympic Ocean? Merion West? Berkshire Blue? Gleneagles Queen's?

David_Madison

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Best 2nd courses
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2007, 07:48:18 AM »
Baltusrol Upper, more fun and interesting than Lower. Or WFE.

wsmorrison

Re:Best 2nd courses
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2007, 08:03:15 AM »
I went to Winged Foot once and ended up playing the East that day because my host had a bad knee and couldn't walk the West course.  I was absolutely delighted with the course and found it more enjoyable than its better-known sister course.  Interestingly, they are both equally challenging courses which in my opinion is odd for a club to want.  If a club is family oriented, my ideal is for one course to be a championship caliber course while the other is an interesting even quirky design that is shorter and playable for juniors starting out, women and seniors.  

I've played both Baltusrol courses and find the upper course to be a much better design, and more exciting to play.  This is especially true after the fairways were narrowed and the bunkers pinched in as well on the Lower Course.  It is rather dull now.  I was unimpressed with their signature par 3 over the water.  I, for one, would rather have width and angles than a narrow singular strategy golf course on a regular basis.  I can see why guests would want to come and play the golf course set up for a major event, but why change the golf course to better suit guests than members?

Merion West fulfills my wishes for a great second course in a single club.  It wasn't designed that way in the beginning.  It was also considered a championship course.  The 1916 Amateur championship committee had a difficult time deciding upon the East or West course as the match play course.  It is interesting to consider that back then, the East at par 73 was considered    equally difficult to the West with its par of 70.  Of course today, the 5989 yard course is more of an enjoyable course for men and the primary course for juniors, women and seniors.  It is a delight to play with small greens, lots of undulation and elevation change and beautiful old trees.  The course is almost unchanged since 1914 with a throwback sort of feel.

Ed Baker and some other Charles River guys were down to play the East Course (Dave Miller couldn't get away from business demands).  The East was closed due to heavy rains.  You could see the disappointment on their faces when told the East was closed.  We tried to get a hold of Tom Paul to play Gulph Mills bt couldn't reach anyone.  When I suggested playing the West course, you could tell they thought they were in for a great disappointment. Well, Bill Dow joined us and we played in very windy conditions with gusts above 50 mph.  They had a blast and their reservations were soon wiped away by the fascinating little other course at Merion.  Everyone comes away with a warm feeling for the course and a desire to come back.  Scores are nearly always a lot higher than one would think looking at the scorecard and to a person, they want to come back and shoot a low score relative to their game.  However, it is a sneaky hard course and the perfect second course to the famed East Course.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2007, 08:06:44 AM by Wayne Morrison »

Mike Policano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Best 2nd courses
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2007, 08:55:00 AM »
Mark,

How's it going?  I haven't played Oympic or Melbourne. I would pick Sunningdale New as the best second course of the ones you named. A first time player would be hard pressed to say which is better Old or New.

I also like the Edinburg at Wentworth.

Cheers

Dean Paolucci

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Best 2nd courses
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2007, 09:19:17 AM »
Although I agree with Wayne about the Upper (or second) at Baltusrol is arguably the better of the two, I would throw Canoe Brook, Westchester, and Philly Cricket into the mix as great primary courses with fine second courses as well.  My vote would have to be Baltusrol!
"It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."  --  Mark Twain

Jfaspen

Re:Best 2nd courses
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2007, 09:31:08 AM »
Haven't played the South, but Oakland Hills North was a very enjoyable course.  Had I not tried to overpower it, I think it would have been a good course to score on.  Quite a bit shorter than it's championship brother, but in immaculate shape with some neat risk/reward holes.  (Thinking of a drivable par 4 on the back 9 that's on the edge of the property).  

Andy Troeger

Re:Best 2nd courses
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2007, 09:35:06 AM »
Both courses at World Woods are very good. The Pine Barrens course is the better of the two but Rolling Oaks is also well worth seeing.

At Forest Highlands I also thought the Meadow course was a very pleasant surprise as a easier to walk second course. The Canyon is fabulous but the Meadow is no slouch at all and very possibly an Arizona top 10 in its own right.

Ken Fry

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Best 2nd courses
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2007, 09:44:04 AM »
I'm curious to see the renovated version, but Olympia Fields South Course was a ball when I played it in '96.

Ken

Mark Pearce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Best 2nd courses
« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2007, 09:49:19 AM »
I must admit to preferring the Blue course at the Berkshire to the Red.
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Best 2nd courses
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2007, 10:36:47 AM »
I would imagine any of the 3 courses at Bandon would be more than acceptable to salvage the day if one of the others were closed.

Phil_the_Author

Re:Best 2nd courses
« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2007, 10:53:04 AM »
Since most of the obvious ones have been mentioned, for the average public player there is Bethpage Red.

What most people don't know is that Bethpage is the ONLY facility in America that has had THREE courses host national championships of the USGA. In 1936 both the Red and Blue courses were used for the Public Links championship.

One can even enjoy much of the original Blue by spending a day on both the Blue & Yellow courses. The only surviving Tillinghast "Reef Hole" is #12 on the Yellow and, quite frankly, the 2nd hole of the Blue is an all-world par-4 that rivals almost anything on either the Black or Red.

Tommy Williamsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Best 2nd courses
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2007, 11:38:40 AM »
Good one's have been mentioned.  

Here are some others. I would rather play Wentworth East than West.  The West is a long slog and the East has some neat green complexes.

I'd be disappointed not to Play Saunton East but could settle for West.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Best 2nd courses
« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2007, 11:42:20 AM »
I played both courses at Sunningdale and Berkshire well over 20 years ago. I thought the New at Sunningdale was every bit as good as the Old. My memories of Berkshire are a bit more hazy, but I recall the 2 courses there being equally good. I would have no problem playing the "2nd course" at either club on a regular basis.

Another public facility with 2 courses is Torrey Pines. The North course does not have the length or challenge of the South, but it might be more fun to play.  
 

Mark Smolens

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Best 2nd courses
« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2007, 11:45:53 AM »
How about Oak Hill?  And frankly Medinah # 1 is more fun than #3.

rchesnut

Re:Best 2nd courses
« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2007, 12:21:40 PM »
The best "second" courses I've played are at Royal Melbourne, Olympic and Walton Heath.  Royal Melbourne is easily the best of the bunch.  I did think that the second course at Walton Heath was a noticable letdown, it was less interesting (though I played both courses on the same day in the rain and I may have just been too soaked to care by the end of the day).   One other "second" course of note is the Gold course at Congressional...it's not as good as the Blue course, but it's a fine course nonetheless.  

Tommy Williamsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Best 2nd courses
« Reply #15 on: November 24, 2007, 01:53:40 PM »
  One other "second" course of note is the Gold course at Congressional...it's not as good as the Blue course, but it's a fine course nonetheless.  

Good call.  I didn't think about it but Art Hills did a very good job a few years ago on the course.

A relatively unknown is the second course at Woodmont CC a half and hour away from Congressional.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Bill Brightly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Best 2nd courses
« Reply #16 on: November 24, 2007, 02:12:31 PM »
I bring guests, to Saucon Valley, and many say the THIRD course, Weyhill, is their favorite.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2007, 02:12:52 PM by Bill Brightly »

J_ Crisham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Best 2nd courses
« Reply #17 on: November 24, 2007, 04:50:33 PM »
Medinah#1 is an enjoyable and testing course. Quite a bit more enjoyable than trying to hit 2 irons into greens on the #3 course that warrant 8 irons.

Scott Stambaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Best 2nd courses
« Reply #18 on: November 24, 2007, 09:33:52 PM »
How about showing up at MPCC to play the Shore and being told you have to play the Dunes?

Or how about showing up at MPCC to play the Dunes and being told you have to play the Shore?

In my opinion, a win win...

John Kirk

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Best 2nd courses
« Reply #19 on: November 25, 2007, 01:12:18 AM »
Pumpkin Ridge's two courses are about equal, though not completely GolfClubAtlas approved venues.

I've heard more people play Los Angeles CC - South than the famous and difficult North course.

Tyler Kearns

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Best 2nd courses
« Reply #20 on: November 25, 2007, 01:56:00 AM »
I thought Royal Melbourne East was a fantastic golf course, and much better than anticipated, likely because the west garners so much attention. Considering the well-known "composite" course consists of half a dozen holes from the East course, I shouldn't have been surprised. However, the "composite" does not include any holes from the strong stretch of 9-13, which is a testament to the golf course's overall strength.

TK

Tommy_Naccarato

Re:Best 2nd courses
« Reply #21 on: November 25, 2007, 02:01:12 AM »
I agree about WFE. Same with Merion West What great places!

Here's one I would be jumping for joy if they told me I couldn't play it's more popular twin--Torrey Pines North. It's a far better course, more enjoyable walk, etc. And I'm not just saying that because of the horrible Rees Jones remodel which did improve some holes but ruined others.

Of course, count me as one that wouldn't be depressed either if I was led to believe I was playing LACC and ended up at Armand Hammer/Holmby Park/Tori Pines!
« Last Edit: November 25, 2007, 02:02:12 AM by Tommy Naccarato »

James Bennett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Best 2nd courses
« Reply #22 on: November 25, 2007, 04:00:38 AM »
How about showing up at MPCC to play the Shore and being told you have to play the Dunes?

Or how about showing up at MPCC to play the Dunes and being told you have to play the Shore?

In my opinion, a win win...
Scott (and Bob)

which is the second course?

James B
Bob; its impossible to explain some of the clutter that gets recalled from the attic between my ears. .  (SL Solow)

Mark Chaplin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Best 2nd courses
« Reply #23 on: November 25, 2007, 08:22:18 AM »
Sunningdale New is the tougher course. Berkshire Blue and WH New are both cracking courses.

Like everyone else I was suprised just how good RM East is, ust a shame about it being spread over 3 paddocks. Not normally a problem but last time I was there the gates failed on the middle paddack!
Cave Nil Vino

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Best 2nd courses
« Reply #24 on: November 25, 2007, 01:12:39 PM »
Where would the New at St Andrews rank if it weren't next door to the Old?  I really loved the green site at #6 with the bowl in front and view of the Auld Gray Town behind, and the pitch shot into #8 par 5 when the pin's behind the mound.

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