Tony

You are really on a roll here with your in depth research on golf in the CT area.  Those aerials are a treasure and this article seems to reveal new information about Raynor and the Course at Yale.

Unlike some of the bullshit made up and overly dramatic prose some write here on GCA, you have made some contributions that truly increase our understanding of the art of GCA.

Wayne

I'm not sure that I agree.  Given better turf conditions I think the ability to maintain the front section (at Yale) as green will only increase flexibility in the shot values on the hole.  However, I do believe that the research that Tony did to discover this fact should be used as a resson to put the pin locations MOSTLY in the back section.  It is located in the front FAR too often I believe for pace of play reasons more then anything else. Now that we know it was not intended to play as such I think Scott and crew have a reason to put back pins in play far more frequently.

I wonder what the guys from Fox Chapel have to say? Isn't their swale every bit as deep as Yale's and a "full" Biarritz with the front portion as putting surface?

If the front half of today's Raynor Biarritz greens were not meant to be part of the green, when and why did all or nearly all of them change, in the same way?  

It surprises me that few if any remain in their original state, if that's what it was, when the change is so big.  

i don't recall fox chapel's swale being as deep as yale's when I last played there

Was the swale a feature incorporated because it allowed the ball a greater chance to come to rest on the back of the green complex where all the pins were located?  If so, I find such a design feature less interesting.  

At Yale I can see this especially important when it was first built because the carry required would have meant a lot of balls came in hot.  There are numerous examples where the ground before the Biarritz green complex allows the balls to land sooner and run onto the green complex, whether the approach was fairway (seems to be the architects' preference) or green height.  This seems to be a better use of the concept.

The first part of the green complex at approach height would slowed the ball down some, adding to the effectiveness of the design.  If the first part of the green complex were maintained at approach height, the Biarritz holes would have been less expensive to maintain.  Perhaps the green complex functions better today with the first portion of the complex at green height and that's why they were changed over.  Additional pin locations with a different distance demand?  If so, that was a departure from the original intent and what does that say about the original intent?

Interesting research stuff Tony.

I think it's safe to say that it still is not certain if Raynor intended any biarritzes to have greenspace before the swale.

What I believe I do know is not a single one of them had greenspace before the swale with the single exception of Yale, and now even that seems to be questionable.

The "Biarritz" shot was one of those specialized shots that I was taught by the old Scottish pro at Piping Rock. He took about ten of us kids out there and showed us how to hit the "biarritz" shot. And then we went over to the Redan and he showed us how to hit the "Redan" shot.

Those were the only two specialized shots on that golf course.

By the way, the very first golf shot I ever hit in my life was to the biarritz green at The Creek Club. That was back around 1951 and at that time that biarritz had fairway before the swale. Today it has greenspace before the swale and the length of the green from front to back is 82 YARDS long---the same as the front to back greenspace today on the biarritz at Fox Chapel.

From Ran's GCA review of Shoreacres:

"Sixth hole, 190 yards; A shorter than usual Biarritz hole that has both the front and back halves as green. The green itself is eighty-three yards long and features a two foot swale approximately in the middle. The Club has not always maintained the front half as putting surface. Interestingly enough, all the greens at Shoreacres have an original cinder base and when Tim Davis went to reclaim the front half, there was no cinder. Perhaps Raynor never intended the front half to be green but the hole is infinitely more interesting because it is."

Wayne:

Do you think a Biarritz has more interest with the front half maintained at green heighth if the approach is generally flat, vs. Yale, where the tee (from what I've seen in pictures) is elevated above the landing area? Shoreacres, for one, appears to have a teeing area at about the same level as the green, and I can definitely see the appeal of keeping both parts of the green at green heighth (pre- and post-swale) because tee shots (broadly speaking) wouldn't be coming in as "hot" as they might with an elevated tee.

Charles Banks graduated from Yale, went to Hotchkiss and from there was enlisted by Seth Raynor to join him in his trade.

The following is from an article written by Charles Banks in 1929 that was published in a Yale bulletin in which Banks described each hole in detail - I got this from the Yale archives a number of years ago and it also appears in my book in the Yale chapter.

Now he was there during constructions so he would know:

1929:

“This hole has its original on the Biarritz Course at the famous watering place in France of the same name.  
   
This is the second of the short holes and is planned for a single shot to the green with the driver.  There is a 163 yard water carry from the back tee.  The green proper is behind a deep trench in the approach.  The approach is about the same size as the green itself and is bunkered heavily both right and left with water jutting in on the right front.  The fairway is the lake.  The tees are elevated above the lake.  The green is heavily battered at the back and the right and the whole psychology of the hole is to let out to the limit. The distance, however, is not as great as it seems, due to the water, and a moderate stroke with care is safer than a slam.  Correct play for this green is to carry to the near edge of the groove or trench and come upon the green with a roll.  The disappearance and reappearance of the ball in the groove adds to the interest of the play.  The carry for this play is 180 yards from the back tee”.

Pretty clear.

Bill: the side bunkering seems to represented the cliff (on one side) on the original hole - the hole played from and 80' cliff across the Bay of Biscay to a 50' cliff beyond.

Tom,

At Mountain Lake two of the four template par-3 greens were lost due to renovations. Brian Silva put in a Short Hole and a Biarritz. Prior to his work there, the Biarritz green site was a bland oval. The club had no photographic evidence of what was there originally, so he came up with his own design.

There are also the one-tier Biarritz greens at courses such as Dedham Country and Polo and Westhampton. George, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Westhampton extend the putting surface well out beyond its original size?

Anthony

"Correct play for this green is to carry to the near edge of the groove or trench and come upon the green with a roll.  The disappearance and reappearance of the ball in the groove adds to the interest of the play.  The carry for this play is 180 yards from the back tee”."


George:

That is precisely the description of the "biarritz" shot that was given and shown to us kids in the early 1950s by the old Scottish pro, Spence, at Piping Rock. The idea and the shot was to hit the ball pretty low, get it on the ground on the front fairway section, and to get the "weight" just right as the ball ran into the swale and disappeared for a second and then reappeared on the other side and scampered up and onto the green. Spence did it for us a bunch of times with something like a 4 wood as we all screamed YEAH! when the ball reappeared. It was a very cool specialty shot.

But the specialty shot that was toughest even amongst the good players was the apparently proper shot to hit to the reverse redan at The Links. That required a pretty low fade and that shot was just not easy to pull off. But when a golfer did that one right it was really cool to see it take the front slope and run down and away.

Man, it's just so interesting to think how some of those good players like my father and his crowd back in that day of the late '40s and early '50s would use shot making and imagination to play the ground back then.

But do you want to know what the real irony is? They did it and they were good at it but they were even more fascinated by how the evolving equipment and balls of that time were making the aerial game so much more doable than it once was.

I would call my father and that crowd "Transition" players because they could do both very well but when given the opportunity it was the aerial game they wanted to go to.

Tony:

I can tell you that long time Westhampton super, Mike Rewinski could just never figure out if that biarritz ever had front greenspace but apparently he just decided to do it anyway.

And that 9th hole short at Mountain Lake is not a Raynor original. Banks did that hole and green later. The present 8th hole was a par four and then a par 3 to the present 8th green. I believe George found the tee on that original par 3 way out to the right.