[Rob_Babcock]

FYI, Before/After/Original photos of the recently restored Pasatiempo holes 13, 16, 17, and 18 are now online at the Pasatiempo web site:

http://www.pasatiempo.com/web/restore/hole13.php
http://www.pasatiempo.com/web/restore/hole16.php
http://www.pasatiempo.com/web/restore/hole17.php
http://www.pasatiempo.com/web/restore/hole18.php

As a teaser, here are the before and after photos of the 16th:


Before restoration. Photo taken 2006.


After restoration. Photo taken October 2007.

The restoration of Pasatiempo, designed by Alister MacKenzie in 1929, has been a 10-year, multi-million dollar effort led by Tom Doak and Jim Urbina of Renaissance Golf. Doak’s team overhauled Pasatiempo’s 18 holes, relying on hundreds of old photographs and drawings to bring back original MacKenzie bunkering, green complexes and tees that had been lost for decades. Thank you Tom and Jim!

[Jeff_Mingay]

The before and after photos are an exciting presentation. Thanks for the links, Rob. And congrats to Tom, Jim and co. I'm sure their work at Pasatiempo was a long time coming.

[Tom Huckaby]

Looks very cool.  Four of us GCAers will be able to speak about this more at oh, about 2:30pm tomorrow.  We tee off at 10am.

 

[Rob_Babcock]

I hope you enjoy your round and I look forward to reading your comments about the restoration. Cheers.

[Tom Huckaby]

Thanks Rob - I'm sure we will have something to say... if no pictures to add which are nearly the quality of the ones on the Pasa website.  Those are fantastic... who took those, anyway?

 

[Kyle Henderson]

Looks very cool.  Four of us GCAers will be able to speak about this more at oh, about 2:30pm tomorrow.  We tee off at 10am.

 

Is the course back in paying shape already? I was hoping to get my first taste of the place in the spring once the new truf has grown in.

[Tom Huckaby]

Kyle - so they tell us.  We'll report back after tomorrow.

TH

[Nick Church]

Thanks for the link.

I am ashamed to admit that I have featured that "before" image of the 16th on my home PC for over a year.

It seems so obvious now what the hole should've been.

Thanks again.

[Jerry Kluger]

I know this is probably being repetitive but can you tell me why the changes had been made: Was the course too difficult to play or too difficult to maintain, etc.?

[Jay Flemma]

Nice thread Tom!

[Tom Huckaby]

Nice thread Tom!

It's Rob's thread - I'm just a smartass rather ruining it.

 

[RDecker]

Awesome Photos, especially the old black n whites.  Kudos to the club for creating such a nice website/page dedicated to the restoration work.

[Bill_McBride]

I know this is probably being repetitive but can you tell me why the changes had been made: Was the course too difficult to play or too difficult to maintain, etc.?

Jerry, I think it was a pure renovation desired by the members.

[Rob_Babcock]

I know this is probably being repetitive but can you tell me why the changes had been made: Was the course too difficult to play or too difficult to maintain, etc.?

Jerry - When you say "changes" I assume you mean why the course had changed from the original MacKenzie design. Maintenance costs mainly. During the depression and after WWII the club went through tough times financially and bunkers were removed or reduced in size/shape to lower maintenance costs. Plus, over time green surface area is lost due to mowing patterns and edge contours change due to sand from bunker explosions and plugging/sanding the greens.

Tom - I took the photos and built the website.

Kyle - It is amazing how well the turf has grown in; we've had spectacular weather in Santa Cruz lately, which has helped immensely. Plus, the Earth Sculptures crew do an amazing job with the sod on and around the greens.

[Tom Huckaby]

I know this is probably being repetitive but can you tell me why the changes had been made: Was the course too difficult to play or too difficult to maintain, etc.?

Tom - I took the photos and built the website.

Rob - I know re the photos, I could see the copyright notices.  Just giving you a good-natured hard time.  Re the website, great work!  It is one of the best for a golf course I have ever seen.

TH

[Pete Lavallee]

Great stuff. I know that in recapturing lost green space on the edges of the greens Tom Doak indicated that they just mowed the fringes to green height and with a few sand top dressing they would revert back to proper putting green again. He indicated this was possible since the greens were just built on dirt, no attempt to build USGA greens had been carried out.

The extension of number 17's green seems like a very large area which was overgrown before the restoration. I was wondering just how this particular area was restored?

[John Kavanaugh]

FYI, Before/After/Original photos of the recently restored Pasatiempo holes 13, 16, 17, and 18 are now online at the Pasatiempo web site:

http://www.pasatiempo.com/web/restore/hole13.php
http://www.pasatiempo.com/web/restore/hole16.php
http://www.pasatiempo.com/web/restore/hole17.php
http://www.pasatiempo.com/web/restore/hole18.php

As a teaser, here are the before and after photos of the 16th:


Before restoration. Photo taken 2006.


After restoration. Photo taken October 2007.

The restoration of Pasatiempo, designed by Alister MacKenzie in 1929, has been a 10-year, multi-million dollar effort led by Tom Doak and Jim Urbina of Renaissance Golf. Doak’s team overhauled Pasatiempo’s 18 holes, relying on hundreds of old photographs and drawings to bring back original MacKenzie bunkering, green complexes and tees that had been lost for decades. Thank you Tom and Jim!

Oh God I hope I am wrong and the 16th green has not been flattened as appears in this photo.  Looks like the difference between the tongue of a dog and one of a cat.

[Tom Huckaby]

Rob:

I think Jerry is not asking about why the course changed from the Mackenzie days, but rather why the members changed it back now.

And I'm guessing the answer is as simple as stated by Bill McBride here - they just wanted to restore it.

But I'm interested in delving in deeper... because it reminds me of the fun line from Jurassic Park "they got so caught up in the fact that they could that they never thought whether they should".. or something like that.

See, I look at all that restored green space and I wonder how fast the speeds will be kept... if it's like I think - over 10 - then I wonder what the point is given so much of it will be unusable.  Or if it is to be kept that fast, how much of it was really restored to the contours of Mackenzie's day, and how much was flattened to accomodate today's speed.

I just wonder how much thought was given to this.

Can you shed some light?

TH

ps to JK - I have the same fear and am hoping the picture lies.  I'll report back after the round tomorrow.

[Rob_Babcock]

None of the "core" green contours changed.  

I assure you, #16 green has not been flattened; it is as much fun as ever!

With the exception of the false front green enlargement on 16 & 18, all other restored areas add pinnable locations and are quite puttable. And, for 16 & 18 these areas now allow approach shots that are short (or spin too much) and don't stay on the green, to be putted instead of requiring a chip shot.

[Tom Huckaby]

But Rob - if these areas are pinnable at 10+ speed, which the management/members seem to like, then the only way they are so is if they are quite flattened from the way Mackenzie had them.... no?

Hell 8 green is damn near unpinnable throughout at today's speeds.... and look what Doak had to do to change 11.....

It concerns me, my friend.  I'd absolutely prefer slower and more contoured to faster and flatter.  But I'm just an infrequent visitor.

It's also quite possible I have a lot of this incorrect, and the wild contours from Mackenzie's day aren't as wild as I think.  But man the pictures are telling....

TH

[Bill_McBride]

None of the "core" green contours changed.  

I assure you, #16 green has not been flattened; it is as much fun as ever!

Rob, I thought I read that the very steep rear section of #11 green had been flattened some.  Can you verify this?  Huck can check it tomorrow, wish I were joining you guys.  

[Tom Huckaby]

Bill:  I've seen 11 already.  It was definitely flattened from what it was prior to two years ago.  The question is how it was in Mackenzie's day... on that point I am unsure.

It's a darn fine green now... I just do have to wonder what it once was.

[Bill_McBride]

Going back to the late 50's, I remember nothing but terror in that area, even with stimps which were probably more 7ish in those days.   Haven't played since Tom Doak flattened it.  

[Tom Huckaby]

Going back to the late 50's, I remember nothing but terror in that area, even with stimps which were probably more 7ish in those days.   Haven't played since Tom Doak flattened it.  

I can say this:  I used to have the same terror.  Even with greens stimping at 10+, I do not recall having close to that as the green is today.

But again, that could be faulty memory - I haven't played Pasa since 10/06.

Tomorrow will be interesting in very many respects.

TH

[ed_getka]

Looking forward to the report on today's round and thoughts on the course updates. Andy headed out early so hopefully he isn't despairing too much in the early morning trek past San Jose.

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