And I was sadly disappointed.

My friend and I have only been able to find one public Ross course near Cincy. We drove a couple hrs to McDermitt, Ohio, and tried The Elks. We had heard from sources here that while far from his best, it was a very pleasing course. I am afraid I did not find it so.

The course is entirely treelined fairways on a slightly rolling property. There is nothing under the trees, and the fairways are so close that we spent most of the day either playing from paralell fairways or having countless others playing from ours. There was only very light rough occasionally, and a few bunkers, otherwise hitting from under trees was the defense of the course.

The green certainly were NOT! Ross is supposedly famous for his greens. These were mild mannered, to say the least. I think #3 and one short par-3 on the back nine were the only ones with some real wave.

Add to that a mediocre layout, and you find yourself wondering what Ross was doing here.

One thing you guys would like was the routing. I did NOT! Many of the tees were SO close to the previous greens that one must fear for their safety. Certainly ideal for walking provided you can still walk after a good beaning  .

All that said, it was OK. Just OK. You guys have made me expect more from him. As it was, $30 was too much.

I hope we can find our way to a better sample of Ross' genius.

Doug

Why the hell have you not played French Lick?  I recently discussed their reduced winter rate and they informed me to call back at the end of the month. They aeriated last week so things should be great for an early November round.  French Lick is only 58 miles from Louisville.

Doug,

Why don't you critique your review for us so that we know you have something on the ball.

Right now it doesn't seem like you have much going for yourself.

Shivas;

I would have responded to Garland if I have understood what he was saying.  

I am certain Ross has better efforts. John was right about French Lick, we need to see it. I have yet to exceed $89, and I will call to see if they really do discount in November. We do, afterall, play all we can in the Winter, even with 8hr+ of driving on a daytrip to get to the beautiful Ault piece Dale Hollow, when it is impossibly cold in the Cincy area.

Now, Garland ........... what?

Doug

No, Garland, you were taking a subtle shot at the messenger because you didn't like what he had to say.  So you went after then nature of his post as a roundabout way of lessening the merit of his thoughts.....

It's OK to be a Ross fan, but Ross fans have to back it up, too.

Dave,

Are you sure you aren't suffering from brat (or some other substance) slippage? Why would I care that he criticized a Ross course? I have never played a Ross course, I wouldn't know a Ross course from a Silva course if I saw one. You guessed it, I have never played a Silva course either.

What I do care about is when someone goes to an 18 hole course built on 110 acres of land and complains about the fairways being too close together and the tees being two close to the greens. Makes me wonder why I am reading such poorly researched/thought out stuff.

Doug,

is there any reason to believe that whatever Ross might have designed in that place back in 1920 even remans? My bet is the Elks course has been altered to death over the years through deliberate tinkering as well as natural collapse. And if it really is a low-budget daily-fee, as your access criterion seems to require, it probably is underfunded and thus never managed to keep up with drainage problems, tree growth, tired turf, wear & tear, etc.

In other words, you probably chose a course that bears little if any resemblance to a real or original or restored Ross layout.

I wouldn't draw much, if anything, from your singular experience.

Doug,
Keep sharing your views. Its good to have a variety of viewpoints whether or not we all agree. I've only played a few Ross courses and agree that some have stood the test of time better than others.

Garland,
There was a big difference between Brad's post and your first one.

Why the hell have you not played French Lick?  I recently discussed their reduced winter rate and they informed me to call back at the end of the month. They aeriated last week so things should be great for an early November round.  French Lick is only 58 miles from Louisville.

Last winter they only charged $40 to play all day with a cart.  I believe this started in mid-November.  

Just be warned that while French Lick is only 58 miles from Louisville, it takes probably 1.5 hours.  Well worth the trip though.

Doug-While you certainly have a right to express your opinion, I do think you missed the boat on this one. Ross can be wildly uneven from one course to another (as Shivas said). However, I have always found the Elks to be a pleasant and enjoyable layout that requires you to hit a variety of shots and have a deft touch around the greens. There are roughly a dozen guys that I know in my area (Columbus) who drive to Scioto County to play it at least once a month and these are not players who would put in the effort for a mediocre course.

If you are looking for a wow! factor, Ross is probably not going to be your cup of tea (or tee). Some courses are more subtle rather than dazzling. The Elks is never going to sniff anyone's "top 100" list but I don't remember a horrible hole on the whole course. In fact, 9 is a very neat short par four with a challenging second shot due to the fact that you can only see a bit of the front of the green over the guarding bunkers (it dares you to hit a driver for an easy second shot, while the safe play off the tee requires a more demanding second shot...that's textbook risk/reward). 10 is a terrific par four that begins with a downhill tee shot to a fairway that bends to the left then travels up to a plateau where the green sits. 1 is a nice downhill par four to get you started and 18 has a great approach shot back up toward the clubhouse. The par threes are a varied group (playing from about 140 to 200 as I remember) and at least two of the greensites on the short holes are pretty severe.

Yes, there are tree lined fairways but I don't think of it as a narrow course. In fact, the fairways are pretty generous in spots. If you spray the ball, you might end up in someone else's fairway (and I have) but that happens on many courses where the holes are parallel.

I also have never thought that the tees are that close to the greens or that there is any real safety issue on the course. It is a very walkable and playable course.

By the way, I have played there a number of times over the years and there certainly has been some tinkering done. However, the routing is true to the original Ross plan and the majority of the changes have been to convert some sand bunkers to grass bunkers. For me, that has not detracted significantly from the design.

Doug, Ross is a mixed bag and not for everybody. I like his courses because of the emphasis on the second shot and the ability to be creative around the greens. However, few courses generate as much disparity of views than Pinehurst #2, generally recognized as his masterwork. Some think it much ado about very little, some marvel at the shot value placed into the approaches and the treachery of the greens.

If you would be willing to give Ross another chance in Ohio, I would suggest you make the trip to Granville (east of Columbus). While four holes are grafted on to the original design in a concession to economics (housing) what remains of the original Ross is pretty terrific...and if you want challenging greens you will find them there. I know Brent Hutto from South Carolina is a big fan of this golf course and plays it every time he visits the state. If you want to give it a try sometime, let me know. I would be happy to join you.

Doug,

I think it's safe to say that sometimes the qualities of a design can be subtle, and one play isn't enough to really appreciate some of those subtleties. I don't profess to have the keenest eye for golf architecture, but still, there have been holes and courses that I dismissed after one play, and only after several rounds did the strategies and, at times, brilliance of the design reveal itself to me.

On the other hand, you played a $30 course and it wasn't that good. Given the nature of the demand curve, I'm not sure what you can reasonably expect at that price.

Doug-

Get thee to Hamilton Elks (original 18) and Portsmouth Elks and your impressions may change. Neither is the best Ross I have played but are far better than what you have described. As previously mentioned, Granville is another one to play, or Manakiki, east of Cleveland.

Again, the people at the course claim the design has been purposely kept intact.

And seriously, what do you think they're going to say?  "We've got a Ross design that we've destroyed with underfunding and neglect?"

Was this indeed Portsmouth Elks? If so, I will disagre with Doug's assessment. Maybe it boils down to "different strokes." Or maybe expectations....when I first plyaed it my expectations were pretty low and I was pleasantly surprised. If one is expecting Pinehurst #2, however.....

Portsmouth has been fiddled with, but importantly the greens are original with the exception of one that has been extended in the front to offer a hole location not protected by a bunker. Some bunkers have been eliminated and, of course, trees have become intrusive. On several holes one can see graessed over bunker shapes amongst stands of white pines and maples. Incredibly, in places these areas look almost as though all that was done in order to accomodate cart paths closer to the fairways, because the paths are invariably between the trees/old bunkers and the fairways.

Portsmouth is short and in places cramped but I found it fun, interesting, and a friendly place to play. It is one of those course about which one will say, "if I had complete control and a million bucks....."