[Eric Franzen]

We now have three courses in Sweden with bent grass fairways (one of them with Penn trio, not sure about the others). Since it is quite new for us I would like to sample some opinion and experiences of them from other territories.

Pros and cons - needs less water and fertilizer than poa but needs a bit more maintenance, right? What else is characteristic for fairways with bent grass?

Playing experience - would like to read how you feel about playing on bent grass fairways compared to other grasses.

Cheers,

Eric

[Adam Clayman]

Eric- Playingwise, having one's ball sit up used to impress us plain folk who grew-up on blue or rye grass fwys.
After having seen other types of grasses provide a similar lie, I'm not as impressed today. Specifically, at Wild Horse, where the bent green grass has invaded the fescue collars, integral to the design and playability, I'm disappointed in how soft the bent grass plays.

 

[Richard Boult]

Since Monarch Dunes first opened in 2006, they've increased the bent/fescue ratio in the fairways to 20% bent, I think to pacify the general public who likes the ball to "sit up" a little.  However, after recently playing the 100% fescue "tight lie" fairways at Bandon, I learned to appreciate it's true "links style" quality that allowed putting from nearly anywhere near the green, since it lays down so nicely. Even with a 20% mixture of bent, putting from just off the fringe becomes unpredictable.

[Doug Spets]

Weaver Ridge, a fine course near Peoria IL, has bentgrass fairways.  Really really nice...and you can't imagine the size of the beaver-pelt divots you can take.

[Adam Clayman]

R- If I understand your point, (and I think I do) incalculable or undeterminable, is what you're calling unpredictable. Yes?

[Richard Boult]

R- If I understand your point, (and I think I do) incalculable or undeterminable, is what you're calling unpredictable. Yes?

Yes, thanks Adam...  and I was surprised to learn just how "predictable" putting was from 100% fescue fairways.

[Tom Jefferson]

Interesting topic to me, in part because of the comments of R.Boult regarding the sward here at Bandon, and especially so given the recent playing of the USGA Mid Am here.  

Not trying to hijack this topic and turn it to fescue and it's playing characteristics, just wanting to interject some accuracy about the bent that DOES occur in the turf sward here.  

The original mixture for the seeding of the first course at Bandon (the Bandon Dunes course, the venue for the match play just concluded) was approximately 77% fescues and 23%colonial bent.  It was about the same at Pacific, and down to 91/9 for the Trails course.

What we have found here, and are now working against, is the tendency for the bent to dominate in areas of higher water application, or in areas of heavier (i.e. more organic content) soils.  Many of the surrounds at the older Bandon Dunes course, as the sward has aged, have bent as the dominant grass, making putting from those areas more unpredictable and 'sticky' than the other course's surrounds.  

In preparation for the Mid Am, and in he and his staffs' maintenance efforts in general, Eric Johnson has worked diligently at reducing that bent dominance, trying to minimize it's tendency to slow and turn a rolling ball.  Those efforts include verticutting, reduced water apps, brushing before mowing, and overseeding with fescue.

So while I have always admired the thought of those beautiful bent fairways at the high end clubs in the eastern part of the country, here at Bandon we are taking a different additude, working to have the firm and fast of fescue, and minimizing, or in the future eliminating, the bentgrass component of the sward.  

Tom

[paul cowley]

While I can appreciate good bent surfaces, I have always felt similar to when I walk into a house that has all white carpeting .....I'm just never really at ease, like I am somehow going to screw something up.

Now when it comes to fescues or bermuda, I feel like I can put my feet up on the furniture......you know what I mean?

[Richard Boult]

Tom, I was at Bandon just prior to the Mid-Am, so I experienced the benefits of your efforts.  I was able to putt from distances off the green I'd even consider at Monarch Dunes.  I like the direction you're going.  I hope Monarch follows suit (another Kemper course). Okay, enough about fescue... back to the bent discussion.

[Jon Wiggett]

Eric,

creeping bent (agrostis palustris) in the fairways is very, very high maintenance. Having worked in Scandinavia for nigh in 6 years during the 90's I would imagine it will have the following draw backs.

1. It is high maintenance. Requires more frequent mowing, more fertiliser, more water and verticutting in comparison to fescue if you maintain fescue properly.
2. Due to the thickness of the leaf it will tend to leave larger cutting clumps on the fairways when mown wet which are unsightly and also increase the disease pressure.
3. Is more prone to disease especially snow mould (often big problem in scan in the spring) leading to poor playing conditions until the growth kicks in. Even possibility of losing entire fairways if the conditions are right (or wrong?).
4. Necessary maintenance program actually encourages poa annua.
5. Lastly, is impossible to maintain without chemicals especially fungicides, so not so eco friendly which I thought would be high on the list of priorities in Sweeden (take a look at Denmark) In over 20 years of working with fescue swards I have never had to spray a fungicide.

The list could go on much longer but I don't want to bore everyone. As you may be able to tell I am a fescue fan.

Tom, the seed mixes you quote at Bandon, are they weight or seed count? Why didn't you go 100% fescue?

[Ray Richard]

We have used bentgrass sod on many of our fairway renovations over the last ten years. With the lower height of cut that predominates high end golf courses in the Northeast, most supers have no other choice. They have to live with the thatch buildup, desease and insect festivals and irrigation demands. We have had good luck with the old workhorse cultivar Penncross noted for its aggressiveness and winter hardiness.

 I get asked, “What are the best fairways you ever played on,” and I always mention Cape Arundel in Kennebunkport Maine. I last played this course 25 years ago but at the time they had pure fescue fairways with no fairway irrigation. The cut was about 7/8 of an inch and the ball sat like it was on a bristle brush. The color was a light green but the grass was very healthy. I believe they have added irrigation to this course which may have impacted the fescue population. Fescues hate excessive water and fertilizer.

[paul cowley]

I spent much of my youth on un irrigated fairways on  Martha's Vineyard....probably on fescues. I loved it but didn't know any better until I became a GCarch.

I do not really like bent fairways, and I tolerate bent greens for lack of a North American alternative. I have become more enamored with the ultra dwarf bermudas and I am very excited about the newest paspalum varieties.

How far south can fescues be grown by a super who has an interest in doing so?

[Doug Ralston]

In these parts, bent grass has for years been the choice of the more upscale publics, as well as most private courses. Recently comes zoysia, which the right type is VERY low maintainence, but high initial sod. And consistent great lies for us amatuers. What zoysia is NOT good for is 'firm and fast' [know around here as 'hard and dry'  ].

But bent cut tight can be wonderful for both 'high' and 'low' golf. As has been pointed out, it costs.

Doug

[Jon Wiggett]

Paul,

in the right soil fescue will survive long, hot dry periods. I have experience of maintaining a pure sward with temperatures of over 100°F each day and no rainfall for about a 2-3 month period. The colour is very brown in the afternoons but it still plays great. When the weather cools down it greens back up great.

I should add this was a dry area so I don't know if high humidity will bee a problem but I could imagine it might. The problem in growing it is rarely the will of the Super but rather the fickleness of the golfer.

[paul cowley]

Jon ....yes, hightemps, sunlight and humidity can combine for the adverse where I am.

Its interesting to see English ivy [hedera helix], is used as a ground cover in the full sun in Southern California....but it wouldn't last a season in South Georgia.
Temps and irrigation are the same....same sun too.

Must be the humidity.

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