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Michael J. Moss

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Drop-shot par-3s - best examples. 6th at NGLA not included.
« on: October 05, 2007, 10:31:03 AM »
First off, are there any great drop-shot par-3s?

The 6th at NGLA is downhill but I wouldn't characterize it as a drop-shot. For purposes of this discussion the change in elevation from tee to green must be at least 40 feet. Raynor's 12th at Shoracres (Short) seems to fit the bill.

Is it a strategy architects are reluctant to use today or are they too flukey. Last question: How is one best oriented with regard to prevailing winds?

Examples?
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Scott Szabo

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Re:Drop-shot par-3s - best examples. 6th at NGLA not included.
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2007, 10:34:24 AM »
Castle Pines has two of them, entirely different greens and surrounds.  Number 7 is about 185 from the tips with a wraparound green with a bunker in the middle (not a bunker in the center of the green, ala Riviera), while number 11 is about 200 yards over a creek.  Both play about two clubs shorter than the yardage would dictate.  Number 11 is about as beautiful a hole as I've seen.
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JESII

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Re:Drop-shot par-3s - best examples. 6th at NGLA not included.
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2007, 10:38:18 AM »
#6 at Meron West is a killer...about 110 yards and probably 75 feet or more downhill to a very well guarded green...

Some of these guys have great pictures of the hole...
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J_McKenzie

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Re:Drop-shot par-3s - best examples. 6th at NGLA not included.
« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2007, 10:42:24 AM »
Scott,

I was fortunate enough to play Castle Pines this past Monday and completely agree with you.  I found #11 to be more intimidating from the tee, but I was really impressed with the variety of challenging pin positions on #7.  Fun golf course.
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Kirk Gill

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Re:Drop-shot par-3s - best examples. 6th at NGLA not included.
« Reply #4 on: October 05, 2007, 10:50:51 AM »
The first one I ever heard a lot of talk about long before playing is the "Devil's Cauldron" fourth hole at Banff Springs. Pictures just do not do justice to just how far down that green looks to be from the tee. Judging distance for a first-time player is not an easy feat.
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BVince

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Re:Drop-shot par-3s - best examples. 6th at NGLA not included.
« Reply #5 on: October 05, 2007, 10:58:18 AM »
Mike, Chambers Bay has 2 solid drop shot par 3 holes and 1 that has maybe too much drop to it.  #9 is a severe downhill par 3 that drops nearly 100 feet but is extremely difficult into a prevailing wind.  In my opinion, 15 and 17 are better "drop shot" holes because they play well even under demanding weather conditions.  
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Phil Benedict

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Re:Drop-shot par-3s - best examples. 6th at NGLA not included.
« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2007, 11:05:34 AM »
9th at New Haven, 4th at Whippoorwill and 5th at Hotchkiss may qualify.
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Phil McDade

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Re:Drop-shot par-3s - best examples. 6th at NGLA not included.
« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2007, 11:15:30 AM »
The Country Club at Brookline has one that's been discussed here; it's one of the holes taken out of the routing for major tournaments, but it's played by the members.
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Michael Dugger

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Re:Drop-shot par-3s - best examples. 6th at NGLA not included.
« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2007, 11:22:52 AM »
7th at Pebble
10th at Pacific Dunes
2nd at Bandon Trails to name but a few

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Michael J. Moss

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Re:Drop-shot par-3s - best examples. 6th at NGLA not included.
« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2007, 11:52:56 AM »
Tee to green, what is the elevation change on the "Duel hole" at San Francisco Golf?
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Tommy Williamsen

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Re:Drop-shot par-3s - best examples. 6th at NGLA not included.
« Reply #10 on: October 05, 2007, 12:23:36 PM »
This is the second hole at Musgrove Mill GC in Clinton, SC
It is about 135 yards and drops some forty feet to a green with waste area on the right and stream fron,t left, and back.  Most of us just aim at the middle, but that is no guarantee of par because of the slope on the green.

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Tim Leahy

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Re:Drop-shot par-3s - best examples. 6th at NGLA not included.
« Reply #11 on: October 05, 2007, 12:35:14 PM »
No. 3 at Spyglass Hill is my favorite with the Pacific Ocean as a back drop. Some other good ones are No. 6 at Torrey Pines North, No. 11 at Sandpiper near Santa Barbara, No. 9 at Lake Chabot in Oakland may be the highest shortest drop shot par 3. A local favorite is No. 13 at La Contenta south of Sacramento.
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JSPayne

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Re:Drop-shot par-3s - best examples. 6th at NGLA not included.
« Reply #12 on: October 05, 2007, 01:01:38 PM »
Although it may not be a great architectual feat, I will always remember #15 at Lakeridge Golf Course in Reno as an amazing LONG drop-shot par 3. 239 from the tips to an island green and dropping 150 feet.....yowsers.

http://www.fairwaysgreens.com/article.asp?articleID=299

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Garland Bayley

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Re:Drop-shot par-3s - best examples. 6th at NGLA not included.
« Reply #13 on: October 05, 2007, 02:12:36 PM »
#9--the prerequisite dropshot par 3 "Olympus"--227/202/168/144 from the 202 tee--will be either into or across wind most days


I played this hole with the superintendent. The photo does not reveal the steepness. I asked him if it was steeper than the angle of repose. He said it is way beyond that.

100 ft. down to the green. I love the view of Puget Sound, the islands, and the Olympic Mts. in the background.

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Evan Fleisher

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Re:Drop-shot par-3s - best examples. 6th at NGLA not included.
« Reply #14 on: October 05, 2007, 02:50:50 PM »
I'll nominate the 12th hole at Leatherstocking in Cooperstown, NY.
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Joe Bausch

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Re:Drop-shot par-3s - best examples. 6th at NGLA not included.
« Reply #15 on: October 05, 2007, 02:54:39 PM »
Quote from: JES II on October 05, 2007, 10:38:18 AM
#6 at Meron West is a killer...about 110 yards and probably 75 feet or more downhill to a very well guarded green...

Some of these guys have great pictures of the hole...

Well, my photo is decent, but not great of this hole, but I'll go ahead and provide a link to it:

http://tinyurl.com/2gjpt6

Obviously mid-afternoon in September leads to many shadows around the green, but you can still get a feel for it.

BTW:  #2 at Wilson's Phoenixville CC has a huge drop, but it is a fairly mundane hole.

And there is a 100 foot drop on the 17th at Broad Run (the Rees Jones course in West Chester formerly known as Tattersall), but I don't find it to be all that interesting of a hole.  Here is a pic:

http://tinyurl.com/2m4juk
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mark chalfant

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Re:Drop-shot par-3s - best examples. 6th at NGLA not included.
« Reply #16 on: October 05, 2007, 03:08:58 PM »
Mike:

The  9th at  New Haven  CC is a substantial drop to  large and gorgeous  Willlie Park jr  green  !

The  14th  @ Rogell ( 142yd.) in Detroit  is a  30 foot drop to  small green  guarded in front by a wide creek  (Ross c. 1919)

Philadelphia CC #5 is   lovely drop to  a very pretty yet challenging green complex
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wsmorrison

Re:Drop-shot par-3s - best examples. 6th at NGLA not included.
« Reply #17 on: October 05, 2007, 03:12:07 PM »
Here is a shot of the 6th green at Merion West.  The green used to sit lower but was prone to flooding.  The green was raised to its present height in 1922.  It is 119 yards from the back tee and drops about 80 feet.



The 7th at Pocono Manor is a very short drop shot of 77 yards.  The 17th at Paxon Hollow is a nice short downhill par 3.  
The 5th at Inniscrone is a 115 yard drop shot.
The 9th at Eagles Mere is 220 yards long but must drop about 100 feet or more.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2007, 03:16:27 PM by Wayne Morrison »
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Dan Kelly

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Re:Drop-shot par-3s - best examples. 6th at NGLA not included.
« Reply #18 on: October 05, 2007, 03:18:52 PM »
How long can a "drop shot" hole be?
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henrye

Re:Drop-shot par-3s - best examples. 6th at NGLA not included.
« Reply #19 on: October 05, 2007, 03:24:15 PM »
In the case of Algonquin's 12th it has a dramatic vista, is small, & a challenge.  Tryall has 2 really strong ones in #10 & 12.

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Jeff Peterson

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Re:Drop-shot par-3s - best examples. 6th at NGLA not included.
« Reply #20 on: October 05, 2007, 03:28:20 PM »
You'd be hard pressed to find a bigger vertical drop than the 170 feet at the 205 yard third hole at the Rick Smith-designed "Threetops" par 3 course at Treetops resort in northern Michigan.  It feels like you're standing on the edge of a cliff, and is at least a three or four club difference.  A couple of photos found on the web (I have no idea who the guy is in the second picture, or why he decided to wear those shorts to play golf):


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Chuck Brown

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Re:Drop-shot par-3s - best examples. 6th at NGLA not included.
« Reply #21 on: October 05, 2007, 03:35:23 PM »
Clearly, you would be able to hunt turkeys if play on the Threetops course got slow...
If you carry a Magnum 12 ga., does that count under the 14-club limit?
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Patrick_Mucci

Re:Drop-shot par-3s - best examples. 6th at NGLA not included.
« Reply #22 on: October 05, 2007, 07:21:55 PM »
# 12 at Roxciticus has a significant drop and is relatively short.

However, from the green, you can't reach the tee with a driver.

Jeff Peterson's picture reminds me of the hole, and, it's got water fronting the green.

Michael Dugger,

# 10 at PacDunes might be too long to classify as a drop shot par 3.
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Michael Dugger

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Re:Drop-shot par-3s - best examples. 6th at NGLA not included.
« Reply #23 on: October 05, 2007, 07:32:46 PM »
Quote from: Patrick_Mucci on October 05, 2007, 07:21:55 PM

Michael Dugger,

# 10 at PacDunes might be too long to classify as a drop shot par 3.

I had the upper tee in mind, I concur from down low it isn't much of a drop shotter.

But from up top, it plays about two less clubs, wind notwithstanding.

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What does it matter if the poor player can putt all the way from tee to green, provided that he has to zigzag so frequently that he takes six or seven putts to reach it?     --Alistair Mackenzie--

Tim Gavrich

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Re:Drop-shot par-3s - best examples. 6th at NGLA not included.
« Reply #24 on: October 05, 2007, 07:33:57 PM »
#11 at Sugarloaf USA in Maine...about 210 yards over the rocky Carabassett (sp?) River...utterly exhilirating.

#9 at my home course of Hop Meadow CC in Simsbury, CT is 228 from the back tee and probably drops about 80 feet; it plays at about 200 from there.

PS: I notice in the pic of the Merion West hole that the flagstick is not a basket.  Why are those pins reserved only for the East?
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