News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


Jason Blasberg

"Choking Freak'in Dogs . . ." OT
« on: September 15, 2007, 09:12:53 AM »
Did anyone else catch Dottie  Pepper's audio slip referring to the US Team's inability to close out the first match this morning.  She obviously thought they had cut the audio feed to commercial.

Will she catch heat like Mr. Miller would for saying the same thing . . .?

PThomas

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:"Choking Freak'in Dogs . . ." OT
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2007, 09:17:49 AM »
did she say freaking or were you being polite JK?
199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

Joe Bausch

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:"Choking Freak'in Dogs . . ." OT
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2007, 09:22:24 AM »
I think she said "choking friggin' dog" and was referring Steinhauer because of the 6 footer she missed on the 18th to close a match out that instead ended halved.
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Jason Blasberg

Re:"Choking Freak'in Dogs . . ." OT
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2007, 09:23:26 AM »
did she say freaking or were you being polite JK?

She really did say "freakin"

Dan Boerger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:"Choking Freak'in Dogs . . ." OT
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2007, 09:44:57 AM »
Sad really ... its not like Steinhauer didn't give it full effort. I suspect an apology forthcoming or a new talking head on the Golf Channel.
"Man should practice moderation in all things, including moderation."  Mark Twain

Tom Yost

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:"Choking Freak'in Dogs . . ." OT
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2007, 10:18:10 AM »
I heard it.  No one was on camera, just the audio came through so I wasn't sure who said it at first.  They were showing the 18th hole crowd as they were about to go to commercial and ... Oops...  Definitely Dottie.

Steinhauer had also just missed a 6-8 ft putt on 17 (?) that would have ended the match.

There was surely some crack production going on during the two hours I watched this morning.


Tom


Craig Sweet

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:"Choking Freak'in Dogs . . ." OT
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2007, 10:38:23 AM »
NY Times slammed the Golf Channel for its non coverage of the Fed Ex
LOCK HIM UP!!!

ed_getka

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:"Choking Freak'in Dogs . . ." OT
« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2007, 10:38:52 AM »
Isn't Steinhauer the one with the long putter? Who in their right mind would expect a long putter headcase to make a putt? ::)
"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:"Choking Freak'in Dogs . . ." OT
« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2007, 10:39:55 AM »
Ain't passion grand?
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Rick Shefchik

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:"Choking Freak'in Dogs . . ." OT
« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2007, 11:36:57 AM »
If it were Don Cherry saying something like that, he'd get away with it. What's the big deal? They are choking freakin' dogs.
"Golf is 20 percent mechanics and technique. The other 80 percent is philosophy, humor, tragedy, romance, melodrama, companionship, camaraderie, cussedness and conversation." - Grantland Rice

Lloyd_Cole

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:"Choking Freak'in Dogs . . ." OT
« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2007, 10:02:40 PM »
I just saw this on Geoff Sack's site, where I posted - I'm loving Dottie more and more with every new thing I hear about her, and she is absolutely the brightest new light on TV. Swearing on camera was the ONLY entertaining thing Curtis Strange ever did on TV. I think her old pals will take this as it should be taken - she cared as much or more as anyone when she competed, she still cares, she still wants USA to win. God bless her, and I'm a European supporter.


Lloyd_Cole

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:"Choking Freak'in Dogs . . ." OT
« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2007, 10:41:45 AM »
Lloyd, I agee that her base skills are quite good.  She is informative and passionate.  But there's an inherent meanness in her that I simply don't like or appreciate.  Sometimes she acts like she belongs in a WWF wrestling ring more than on a golf course.

Dave

When she played I used to think that way, especially re Solheim Cup and me being British. Faldo was without doubt a loathsome individual, too. But as broadcasters, I'd argue that they are now the best we have, and succeed, occasionally, in making US Golf television watchable.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2007, 10:42:26 AM by Lloyd_Cole »

Rick Shefchik

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:"Choking Freak'in Dogs . . ." OT
« Reply #12 on: September 16, 2007, 11:42:13 AM »
Now that the newspapers have picked this up (it was considered the biggest part of the story in the AP account I read in our Sunday paper today), I dread the next development: Pepper forced to appologize, then removed from future LPGA broadcasts, then possibly forced to resign form the Golf Channel/NBC.

If the women's tour has the slightest clue about what's good for them, they'll recognize Pepper's passion for their sport and the personality she brings to the telecasts, and forgive her. Hell, they don't have to like her; the PGA pros don't like Johnny Miller, but they're not dumb enough to try to force him out. I'm not sure that will be the case with the women pros.
"Golf is 20 percent mechanics and technique. The other 80 percent is philosophy, humor, tragedy, romance, melodrama, companionship, camaraderie, cussedness and conversation." - Grantland Rice

Phil McDade

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:"Choking Freak'in Dogs . . ." OT
« Reply #13 on: September 16, 2007, 12:03:28 PM »
What's the big deal? They are choking freakin' dogs.

Some choke job, today, huh?

rboyce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:"Choking Freak'in Dogs . . ." OT
« Reply #14 on: September 16, 2007, 12:16:12 PM »
Yep, the ChFDs have a lot of talent. Wish the US men had as many good young players who could live up to the young US women players.

Rick Shefchik

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:"Choking Freak'in Dogs . . ." OT
« Reply #15 on: September 16, 2007, 12:23:13 PM »
Phil,

No choke today. They played very well.

Context is everything. U.S. professionals have not had a good run against Europeans in team play lately. Especially, U.S. players have been out-putted on the closing holes. Pepper's comment was made after the U.S. had blown two more matches. Within the aforementioned context, Pepper's comment was reasonable.

I don't want to see her fired for it.
"Golf is 20 percent mechanics and technique. The other 80 percent is philosophy, humor, tragedy, romance, melodrama, companionship, camaraderie, cussedness and conversation." - Grantland Rice

Phil McDade

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:"Choking Freak'in Dogs . . ." OT
« Reply #16 on: September 16, 2007, 12:31:50 PM »
Rick:

I don't want to see her fired for it, either. TV golf commentary is too bland as it is.

But I think agreeing with her, at a point in the match when the US was still ahead and the overall match was roughly half-over, is a bit of a stretch.

Did Tiger choke yesterday on the 18h at East Lake? He missed an easy putt on a pathetically easy course. I see he's still leading by 3.

I just think it's easy to throw around the "choke" label when you and I don't have a clue about the kind of conditions, circumstances and pressure golfers are under.  

Rick Shefchik

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:"Choking Freak'in Dogs . . ." OT
« Reply #17 on: September 16, 2007, 12:39:44 PM »
Phil,

I think I've got a clue. I've choked like a dog any number of times in situations that were meaningful to me. Johnny Miller has admitted as much many times. Maybe it was the lack of compassion in Pepper's comment that grates; if she hasn't choked in her career, she must be superhuman.

It was an off-mike (so she thought) utterance of frustration, like we all are subject to make watching our teams fail while watching in the comfort of our living room. Golfers are human; so are commentators, and people like us sitting at a computer. Since I tend to root for my home country, I was pleased the U.S. proved me and Dottie wrong today.
"Golf is 20 percent mechanics and technique. The other 80 percent is philosophy, humor, tragedy, romance, melodrama, companionship, camaraderie, cussedness and conversation." - Grantland Rice

Lloyd_Cole

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:"Choking Freak'in Dogs . . ." OT
« Reply #18 on: September 16, 2007, 02:25:21 PM »
Rick:

I don't want to see her fired for it, either. TV golf commentary is too bland as it is.

But I think agreeing with her, at a point in the match when the US was still ahead and the overall match was roughly half-over, is a bit of a stretch.

Did Tiger choke yesterday on the 18h at East Lake? He missed an easy putt on a pathetically easy course. I see he's still leading by 3.

I just think it's easy to throw around the "choke" label when you and I don't have a clue about the kind of conditions, circumstances and pressure golfers are under.  

Phil

Just for the record. I wasn't agreeing with her. I just like that she is passionate and bright. Quite the antithesis of most of her fellow broadcasters.

Ken Fry

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:"Choking Freak'in Dogs . . ." OT
« Reply #19 on: September 16, 2007, 03:33:50 PM »
Sorry guys, but I feel for Dottie Pepper like I feel for Johnny Miller.  Everyone wants to discuss how they both "speak there mind and provide such wonderful insight.  What a breath of fresh air."  Spare me.

They're both frustrated past top players who have a great talent for shallow, biting commentary, not well thought out and insightful input.

Pepper made the comment during yesterday's telecast, when a European player was pumping her fist after making a nice putt, "Why is it she shows that kind of emotion, she's fiery.  When I showed that kind of emotion, I was called an ugly American."  Dottie, your reputation was formed and solidified for actions over many years.  You think past Solheim Cup teammates are blowing yesterday's remarks off as "love of the competition and a desire to see the team win?"

My opinion of Dottie Pepper was solidifed many years ago during one of the first Wendy's Three Tour Challenge events.  Here's a made for TV event.  Dottie's on the 18th tee, the team scores are close.  Camerman gets prepared behind her and makes the comment "we're live."  She pulls the club back and snap hooks her shot.  She turns to the cameraman on live TV and says, "What the f#@&!"  It's this class that has solidified her "ugly American" status.

Ken

Phil McDade

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:"Choking Freak'in Dogs . . ." OT
« Reply #20 on: September 16, 2007, 04:00:45 PM »
Pepper seems relatively candid, which I like. I don't think she should get axed, for the reasons I cited. But I also disagreed with her assessment of the team, at that particular point of the tournament, for the loss of a few holes by two of the American pairs and one poor putt by Steinhauer. Still, like Lloyd, I support her right and standing to say it, because a) it's her job, and b) she knows what she's talking about, because she's been there -- both as a golfer and at the Solheim Cup. I think if announcers feel they always have to watch their back, they stop being candid.

Rick, you may have a clue, but I'm guessing it's a pretty slight one. You, like me, have spent most of your professional life observing athletes, and (guessing here) not a second in their shoes as an athlete competing at that level. You, like me, may have choked in some other endeavor, but I think it's a bit far-fetched to compare what we do in (relative) anonymity and what professional athletes do in front of thousands (in person) or millions (on TV). Top athletes are very, very rare birds -- the rest of us are kind of hacks, no matter what we do (Lloyd's an exception -- I really like his music...)

Lloyd_Cole

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:"Choking Freak'in Dogs . . ." OT
« Reply #21 on: September 16, 2007, 08:23:31 PM »
Pepper seems relatively candid, which I like. I don't think she should get axed, for the reasons I cited. But I also disagreed with her assessment of the team, at that particular point of the tournament, for the loss of a few holes by two of the American pairs and one poor putt by Steinhauer. Still, like Lloyd, I support her right and standing to say it, because a) it's her job, and b) she knows what she's talking about, because she's been there -- both as a golfer and at the Solheim Cup. I think if announcers feel they always have to watch their back, they stop being candid.

Rick, you may have a clue, but I'm guessing it's a pretty slight one. You, like me, have spent most of your professional life observing athletes, and (guessing here) not a second in their shoes as an athlete competing at that level. You, like me, may have choked in some other endeavor, but I think it's a bit far-fetched to compare what we do in (relative) anonymity and what professional athletes do in front of thousands (in person) or millions (on TV). Top athletes are very, very rare birds -- the rest of us are kind of hacks, no matter what we do (Lloyd's an exception -- I really like his music...)

Phil, cheers. And for the record - I have 'choked' on stage on numerous occasions, less these days, but maybe less is at stake now.

Rick Shefchik

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:"Choking Freak'in Dogs . . ." OT
« Reply #22 on: September 16, 2007, 08:36:47 PM »
Phil,

I honestly don't get your point. Are you saying pro athletes don't choke?
"Golf is 20 percent mechanics and technique. The other 80 percent is philosophy, humor, tragedy, romance, melodrama, companionship, camaraderie, cussedness and conversation." - Grantland Rice

Tim_Cronin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:"Choking Freak'in Dogs . . ." OT
« Reply #23 on: September 16, 2007, 09:22:29 PM »
Very early Sunday morning, about 20 minutes into the telecast, Pepper said she regretted the phrase (freaking dogs, which she did not repeat), but stuck to her guns on choking. Good for her.
However, she also called the whole thing a mistake because of technical difficulties (I wasn't taking notes at that hour and have not looked back at the tape), pinning the blame on the late switch to a commercial. True, but it's not wise to throw the boys and girls in the truck or at master control under the bus.
The website: www.illinoisgolfer.net
On Twitter: @illinoisgolfer

Phil McDade

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:"Choking Freak'in Dogs . . ." OT
« Reply #24 on: September 16, 2007, 09:56:22 PM »
Rick:

A personal bias -- I really don't like the word. I think it's used much too often, usually much too quickly, to describe the performance (or lack thereof) of top-level athletes. I believe, without any insight other than my observation of athletes, that they choke far, far less than most folks think, or ascribe them as doing.

My own theory is that there is an incredibly fine line between a very top performance and something less than perfection that yields a mediocre or less-than-desired result -- a 7-iron hit a bit too thin that flies the green, a pitch that just misses the inside corner on a 3-2 count with the bases loaded, a football thrown just over the fingertips of a receiver. Performing at that level, it seems to me, takes an incredible skill set of coordination, timing, mental fortitude, patience and urgency (e.g., Ted Williams summed up his approach to batting in six words: wait, wait, wait -- quick, quick, quick). Throw any of those out of balance just a bit, and the result is often something less than great and often dramatic -- bogey instead of birdie, runs scored vs. outs, touchdowns vs. punting. And it happens all the time in sports (Tiger missing what was described as an incredibly easy putt on the 18th green Sat.), by every athlete.

I think true choking -- which I'd describe as a near-complete breakdown of skills in the face of intense pressure -- doesn't happen all that often. Calc's topped iron at the 17th at Kiawah at the 91 Ryder Cup comes to mind. But not that many others. Even Van de Velde doesn't strike me as completely choking -- he made a series of really bad decisions, I'd argue, because he'd never been in that situation before, and got one really bad break (the ricochet off the stands into the tall grass), but I'd sooner describe Calc's shot as more of a choke than Van de Velde's 18th. (The best announcing I've ever heard about a golf tournament came from Curtis Strange that day, who simply called Van de Velde "dumb;" he was right.)

I don't think Steinhauer -- on a day with wind, rain, and 50-degree temps -- missing a three-footer is a choke. Yes, it's magnified for all to comment on and ascribe as a choke, but I think she just missed a short putt at a bad time.

Lloyd:

I've seen Dylan three times on stage -- he was simply wonderous one night, pretty good the other, and sort of disinterested the third. I ascribed the first two to his general talent, and the last one to the knowledge that the guy has been doing this for 40-plus years, and is bound to have a bad night or two.

Tags:
Tags:

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()
Back