[Ash Towe]

No NZ magazine publishes a list such as can be found in GD or Golf Magazine.  However in the latest issue of The Cut magazine the following peoples lists were published.
Sir Bob Charles
1 Paraparaumu Beach
2 Kauri Cliffs
3The Hills (not open yet)
4 Cape Kidnappers
5 Wairakei
6Clearwater
7Jack's Point (not open yet)
8Gulf Harbour
9Shirley
10Titirangi
11 Middlemore
12Heretaunga
13Otatara
14Ngamotu
15Wanganui
16 Poverty Bay
17 Hastings
18 Hokowhitu
19 Balmacewan
20 Millbrook
21 Russley
22Terrace Downs
23Oreti Sands
24Mangawhai
25 Kaitaia

Greg Turner
Has not played several courses therefore not on the list

1Paraparaumu Beach
2 Cape Kidnappers
3Wairakei
4 Shirley
5 Oreti Sands
6 Titirangi
7Chisholm Park
8Poverty Bay
9 Otatara
10 Ngamotu
11 Middlemore
12 Hastings
13 Mt Maunganui
14Heretaunga
15 Clearwater
16 Millbrook
17 Balmacewan
18Templeton
19Napier
20 Taupo
21 Westport
22Arrowtown
23Hokitika
24Roxburgh
25 Nelson

[Ash Towe]

Stuart Jones List  He is now 82 won 7 national titles and played in seven Eisenhower trophies.

1Wairakei
2 Cape Kidnapers
3 Kauri Cliffs
4 Paraparaumu Beach
5Lakes Resort
6Clearwater
7Gulf Harbour
8Shirley
9 Middlemore
10Terrace Downs
11Heretaunga
12Hastings
13Titirangi
14Russley
15Otatara
16Oreti Sands
17Hokowhitu
18Poverty Bay
19Millbrook
20Wanganui
21Ngamotu
22Balmacewan
23Waitangi
24 Mangawhai
25 Kaitaia

Ricky Bartlett, amateur who played all NZ's corses in a calender year.

1Paraparaumu Beach (He is a member)
2Kinloch Resort (not open yet, Nicklaus Signature course)
3 Lochiel
4 Arrowtown
5 The Hills
6 Waipu
7 Mangawhai Heads
8Titirangi
9Akarana
10Cape Kidnappers
11Pauanui
12Matarangi
13Ngamotu
14Waverley
15Miramar
16Wairakei
17Waimairi Beach
18Mayfield
19Westport
20Cambridge
21Kerikeri
22Hamilton
23Ngaruawahia
24Alexandra
25Ohope
22

[James Bennett]

Ash

Ed G will be interested to see Kaitaia got a couple of '25's.  I assume that was one of the courses he was interested in but didn't see.

Ricky Bartlett doesn't seem to rate Clearwater of Gulf Harbour?  I don't know the courses at all in NZ apart from the TV but I find that interesting given the TV experience (I also note that The Grange in Auckland which has hosted NZ Opens is also missing from all lists, perhaps no surprise there).  I guess the omissions are more interesting than the ratings.

Have you left on your northern sabbatical yet Ash?  Or is departure imminent?

James B

PS  Ash, do you have a special Kiwi spell-checker on your PC?  Those names are a real challenge to a non-kiwi.

[Mike_Clayton]

Ash,

It seems amazing that Turner is the only one to rate Paraparaumu and Kidnappers as one and two.
I would put them around the other way but surely they are far and away the best two courses in NZ.
Oreti Sands is the one I want to see- the pictures look very good.

[Kevin Pallier]

Ash

How do you rank the one's you've played ?

[Grant Saunders]

I find it interesting that Bob Charles doesnt rate 2 of his own designs. Formosa, off the championship tees, is probably one of the best tests of golf in all of New Zealand. Unfortunately the owners show no real interest in the place and the maintenance suffers as a result. Also, many of the design elements such as palm trees, lakes and excessive bunkering detract from the New Zealand flavour of a course.
The other, Matarangi, started as a nine hole course in 1988. The original 9 was built on a fantastic sandy site with a beautiful range of holes. The old 9th off the tee was my favourite shot on the course. The second 9 was completed around 4 years ago and I have yet to see it. From what I have heard, compromises were made in favour of property and holes forced in around the real estate component.

Not surprising to see Gulf Harbour miss out on Turners list. He was highly critical of the course after the world cup was played there in 1998. Having played there myself several times, I have issues with a number of holes and dont enjoy playing with housing bordering many holes.

Nice to see Lochiel there on Ricky's list. this is a wonderful undulating course built in dry watercourses. Apparently it has only been closed 3 days in the last 50 years due to rain.

Hamilton golf club is definitely one of my favourites. I have had the pleasure of playing there many times and always enjoy it. It is a solid layout on a site with much natural movement. It finishes with a par 3 but it is an exciting golf hole and easy to ruin a good round on.

I predict Titirangi to be top 5 in NZ once they have finished the redevelopment. My hats off to the great job Steve Hookway the superintendent is doing there.

[Ash Towe]

James- I head off next Friday.  Cannot wait, it has been a long time in the planning.  Kiwi spell check is impossible!!  Kaitaia was just too far away for Ed, not enough time before he went to the other side of the pond.
Mike- I agree with you.  It will be interesting to see how people react to The Hills after the NZ Open
Kevin- I have not played enough courses in the South Island to do it justice.
Grant-Your comments are on the mark.  Ed was really surprised with the quality of Titirangi.  It is the best course in Auckland, in my opinion.
There should be some interesting developments at Gulf Harbour with the new ownership.
Interesting to see Kinloch when all 18 holes are open.

[Ash Towe]

Kevin,
I gave you a weak response.
So here goes-
1 Cape Kidnappers
2 Paraparam
3 Kauri Cliffs
4 Wairakei
Then a gap
5 Shirley
6 Titirangi
7 Middlemore
8 Napier
9 Taupo Cenntennial
10 Mt Maunganui
Then a group like Terrace Downs- Clearwater, plus a hidden gem like Waipu

[Pete_Pittock]

I may be down there two years hence. Which courses are on South Island?

[Mike_Clayton]

Ash,

Two questions.

What do you make of Heretaunga?
Where could it be in a top 10 NZ list?

[Ash Towe]

Hi Mike,
I cannot answer because I have never played there.
I have a feeling it would be in or close to my top ten.
How is your course going in Tasmania.
Ash

[Mike_Clayton]

Ash,

Pity you have not played there.We have done a masterplan and I think it could be really good.It is very pretty and the routing is not a problem.

Tasmania is going slowly but its a great site.
Its a long way from anywhere but no one thought Barnbougle would work either!

[Kevin Pallier]

Kevin,
I gave you a weak response.
So here goes-
1 Cape Kidnappers
2 Paraparam
3 Kauri Cliffs
4 Wairakei
Then a gap
5 Shirley
6 Titirangi
7 Middlemore
8 Napier
9 Taupo Cenntennial
10 Mt Maunganui
Then a group like Terrace Downs- Clearwater, plus a hidden gem like Waipu

Ash

Appreciate your list - at the behest of Ed I need to get back over to your fair Islands to play some golf. Will keep your list of courses in mind.

Hope to hear your thoughts about Hills and Kinloch when they're complete.

[Ash Towe]

Kevin,
The Hills is owned by Michael Hill the jeweller.  It is not definite if there will be any public access.  Jacks Point is near and will be open to the public.  I will get to Kinloch in the summer holidays if it is open.  Let me know if you come over.
Mike- Thanks for the info.  Best of luck with Tasmania.  A few more courses there and it becomes very attractive as a destination.

[Jason McNamara]

I may be down there two years hence. Which courses are on South Island?

Pete -

Of Ash's Top 10, only Shirley is in the south.  Clearwater and Oreti Sands (end of the world) are as well, along with the new ones (The Hills, Jack's Point).  Also Chisholm Park, the "hidden gem" dirt-cheap public course in Dunedin.

Question for Ash (or whoever):  Middlemore = Auckland?

[Ash Towe]

Jason-Middlemore is indeed Auckland G.C.
Pete-Sorry for not answering your question.  Jason did it well.
If you come to NZ the South Island is a must for things other than golf.  Queenstown may end up a golf destination depending on the quality of THe Hills and Jacks Point.  Arrowtown in particular, Kelvin Heights and Millbrook are also worth a visit.

[Jason McNamara]

Thanks, Ash.  Though I thought I'd seen Millbrook slagged on this site a while back.  Have they made any changes, or is this just a difference of opinion?

[ed_getka]

Some interesting choices  in these lists. I only saw four on my trip and would list them:
Cape Kidnappers
Paraparaumu
Titirangi
Auckland (Middlemore)

As Ash alluded Titirangi was a real delight. The land is fantastic and I loved the routing. Put in some greens in keeping with other Mackenzie courses and it could be one of the best in NZ (although a bit short for bombers).

Grant,
    What are they going to be doing to Titirangi that will improve it so much in your opinion?
   
I find it interesting that someone would have Kinloch as the 2nd best course in NZ  when it is not even open for play yet.

I am surprised at how well-regarded Wairakei is. I tried to convince myself to at least see it, but it just didn't look  that interesting. I presume it is a good test of golf, but how fun is the course?

[Ash Towe]

Jason-Millbrook is not that good in my opinion.  The setting is terrific.  If you were in Queenstown and had a few spare hours it would be ok to have a hit.

[Mark_Guiniven]

How many degrees of separation exist between Sir Bob Charles and the designer of his third ranked course 'The Hills'?

[Ash Towe]

Hi Mark,
Bob Charles was involved with some of the designers first projects.  The level of input for The Hills has not been made known as far as I am aware.

[ed_getka]

Ash,
   If you have computer access it is time to start reporting on the events of the past few days. Inquiring minds want to know.

[Mark_Guiniven]

Hi Mark,
Bob Charles was involved with some of the designers first projects.  The level of input for The Hills has not been made known as far as I am aware.

If I'm Bob Charles and consulting for John Darby and getting paid, I'm putting three of his courses in the top seven as well. Hell, let's make John Darby the only guy developers consider using in the South Island.

Michael Hill's course is better than Julian Robertson's one at Cape Kidnappers? Tom Doak better watch the New Zealand Open this November then. He might pick up some pointers.

[ed_getka]

Hi Mark,
Bob Charles was involved with some of the designers first projects.  The level of input for The Hills has not been made known as far as I am aware.

If I'm Bob Charles and consulting for John Darby and getting paid, I'm putting three of his courses in the top seven as well. Hell, let's make John Darby the only guy developers consider using in the South Island.

Really? You are asked to rank courses and you make your picks on the basis of who is paying you? Do you change your rankings based on the highest bid?

[Mark_Guiniven]

Really? You are asked to rank courses and you make your picks on the basis of who is paying you?

If I'm Sir Bob Charles I could Ed. And not just on the basis of who has paid me in the past, but also on the basis of who's the most likely to pay me in the future. Nothing wrong with giving their career a leg up if it supplements me when the deer velvet sales are down. You see, as the 1963 British Open Champion, I'm always going to be the first guy the media goes to in a small country like New Zealand when they want an opinion on golf courses, no matter what I say. So what's wrong with "feathering one's own nest" a bit? No one seems to mind. They keep asking me what I think.

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