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Ron Farris

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Tom Doak politely ask me to-------
« on: September 11, 2007, 12:18:31 PM »
----- Post this picture of Rock Creek.  He has some interesting things to say about this hole.  I expect him to comment on this thread.  This is one of those holes where you just know it is fun to play the moment you step on the tee:
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Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Tom Doak politely ask me to-------
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2007, 12:22:38 PM »
top-shot bunkers?
 ???  :o
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"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

ed_getka

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Tom Doak politely ask me to-------
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2007, 12:26:04 PM »
I presume those are cross-bunkers so that even if you choose to lay up the second shot is still daunting. Whereas if you go for it and succeed you have a much easier shot and are rewarded for your boldness. Am I even close? :)
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"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.

Matt_Cohn

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Tom Doak politely ask me to-------
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2007, 12:26:47 PM »
Can someone explain the hole?
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Jay Flemma

Re:Tom Doak politely ask me to-------
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2007, 12:34:55 PM »
Look at the way that terrain just rumbles along!  Awesome.  Look how much worse the angle is if you lay up...or so it seems...
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Brad Swanson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Tom Doak politely ask me to-------
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2007, 12:36:11 PM »
It would certainly be nice to know if the photo is taken from the line of play of the tee shot, or is from the left.

Cheers,
Brad
« Last Edit: September 11, 2007, 12:37:00 PM by Brad Swanson »
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Joe Hancock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Tom Doak politely ask me to-------
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2007, 12:36:50 PM »
I'm going against all convention, and guess that it is a blind par 3 with eye candy bunkers.

 ;D
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" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Tom Doak politely ask me to-------
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2007, 12:44:43 PM »
I don't know how we can say much without knowing the yardages.  On mere appearance, I see the right side as possibly being the immediate safe and short lay-up, with a greater risk and angle to carry the ravine on the second.  Yet, if the terrain is so down hill and hogbacked in the right FW, one might have an actual more risky shot if you let out too much shaft so to speak, and either run down and through into the ravine, or bound to the right of the humpback making your lot even worse...

...yet if you take the risk up the left long carry FW (how far is it to carry to the FW?) one takes the ever greater chance to slice it to the bunkers on diagonal cross carry, or to the ravine and dead you be.  Depending on how tough or modest the rough is just out of the photo on the far left (if it is TDs more blended FW-->rough) and I was feeling frisky, I'd aim at that bush far left towards the left FW.  But, I'd want to know how far it is up the right FW to run through into the ravine, or how far the carry across the ravine from about middle or 3/4 down right FW before I stepped up to bat...

Yardages please.  The zoom feature of a camera could make this look like a par 4 and it is really a par 5.  How about a pictogram or something...
« Last Edit: September 11, 2007, 12:49:45 PM by RJ_Daley »
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No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Michael J. Moss

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Tom Doak politely ask me to-------
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2007, 12:48:57 PM »
Dogleg right par-4. Cut off as much as you dare. Could be par-5, since green is not in sight, but bunkers have to present some risk/reward decision.

Sorry Joe!  ;D
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Mark Pearce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Tom Doak politely ask me to-------
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2007, 12:49:14 PM »
Everything suggests the heroic carry gives the easier second shot.  But if the green slopes towards the ravine then it's likely that the lay up short right, though leaving a longer second shot, gives an angle with the green sloping towards the shot, whereas long left leaves a second to a green sloping left to right, towards the ravine.

So, if the yardages are right, you could leave a straightforward mid-iron to a receptive green or a tricky short iron, possibly requiring a little right to left shape to hold the green.
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Richard Boult

Re:Tom Doak politely ask me to-------
« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2007, 12:51:14 PM »
Is this taken from the teebox?  Is this a par 3 or 4? What's the yardage?

I didn't see a hole that looked like this on their website. Is this the 4th?

Rock Creek Course Layout
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Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Tom Doak politely ask me to-------
« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2007, 12:56:51 PM »
Quote from: R.Boult on September 11, 2007, 12:51:14 PM
Is this taken from the teebox?  Is this a par 3 or 4? What's the yardage?

I didn't see a hole that looked like this on their website. Is this the 4th?

Rock Creek Course Layout

Wrong course!

Search for Rock Creek Cattle Company
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"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Richard Boult

Re:Tom Doak politely ask me to-------
« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2007, 12:57:22 PM »
Quote from: R.Boult on September 11, 2007, 12:51:14 PM
Is this taken from the teebox?  Is this a par 3 or 4? What's the yardage?

I didn't see a hole that looked like this on their website. Is this the 4th?

Rock Creek Course Layout

Actually, that doesn't look like it could be in Alabama.  Maybe I have the wrong Rock Creek.
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Michael J. Moss

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Tom Doak politely ask me to-------
« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2007, 12:58:56 PM »
Ooops! Bunkerless green sighted. Par-4!

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RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Tom Doak politely ask me to-------
« Reply #14 on: September 11, 2007, 12:59:09 PM »
Looking at Rock Creek web page, the map of the course is not good.  It could be #3 or #10, both par 5s.  Mr Moss, you don't see the green?  

http://www.rockcreekcattlecompany.com/htmlsite/propertymap.pdf

If I were playing as a guest with my camera handy, I think I could depict it better...Tom  :P ::) ;) ;D 8)
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No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Richard Boult

Re:Tom Doak politely ask me to-------
« Reply #15 on: September 11, 2007, 01:00:05 PM »
Quote from: Garland Bayley on September 11, 2007, 12:56:51 PM
Quote from: R.Boult on September 11, 2007, 12:51:14 PM
Is this taken from the teebox?  Is this a par 3 or 4? What's the yardage?

I didn't see a hole that looked like this on their website. Is this the 4th?

Rock Creek Course Layout
Wrong course!

Search for Rock Creek Cattle Company

That's better... Thanks Garland!
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Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Tom Doak politely ask me to-------
« Reply #16 on: September 11, 2007, 01:02:55 PM »
c'mon Dick,

You should know better than to mistake that rock creek for a Doak course!
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"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Tom Doak politely ask me to-------
« Reply #17 on: September 11, 2007, 01:05:23 PM »
Garland, check again, that wasn't me making THAT mistake!  I got the correct  link.
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Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Tom Doak politely ask me to-------
« Reply #18 on: September 11, 2007, 01:05:58 PM »
I'm with RJ...

Based on the map, it looks like number 10...
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Richard Boult

Re:Tom Doak politely ask me to-------
« Reply #19 on: September 11, 2007, 01:08:42 PM »
My bad Garland ;)... when I posted the site, I didn't look further than the front page and course layout. Too trigger happy!  I like RJ's guess that this is the par 5 10th.
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Richard Boult

Re:Tom Doak politely ask me to-------
« Reply #20 on: September 11, 2007, 01:19:50 PM »
I'd like to know what it takes to carry those first bunkers. My initial reaction to this hole would be to go for it in 2... Drive the bunkers, then hit an approach to the front-left corner of the green. If I hit the bunkers, I lay up and go for par.  Just not enough info to really comment though.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2007, 01:22:40 PM by R.Boult »
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ChipRoyce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Tom Doak politely ask me to-------
« Reply #21 on: September 11, 2007, 01:20:56 PM »
Quote from: Ron Farris on September 11, 2007, 12:18:31 PM
----- Post this picture of Rock Creek.  He has some interesting things to say about this hole.  I expect him to comment on this thread.  This is one of those holes where you just know it is fun to play the moment you step on the tee:


What's the yardage to the bunkers and to carry on left & right?
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Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Tom Doak politely ask me to-------
« Reply #22 on: September 11, 2007, 01:25:03 PM »
Quote from: Garland Bayley on September 11, 2007, 01:02:55 PM
c'mon Dick,

You should know better than to mistake that rock creek for a Doak course!


My sincere apologies Dick! I assumed you had followed the link given.  :'(
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"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Tom Doak politely ask me to-------
« Reply #23 on: September 11, 2007, 01:27:58 PM »
Quote from: Kalen Braley on September 11, 2007, 01:05:58 PM
I'm with RJ...

Based on the map, it looks like number 10...

No way!

14
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"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Richard Boult

Re:Tom Doak politely ask me to-------
« Reply #24 on: September 11, 2007, 01:35:11 PM »
yep, can't be 10 or you'd see 3 and 4 in the distance. Garland is right - 14!  Photo is taken off in the rough downhill and to the left of the tee. You can see the 15th tee just left of the green and across the cart path?  15th fairway must be beyond the trees and ravine right of the green. I don't care how far out those bunkers are, it's downhill and I'm going driver and aiming right of the guy in the bunker (assuming the tee box is up the hill to the right of this vantage point)!
« Last Edit: September 11, 2007, 01:43:13 PM by R.Boult »
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