That's right, the new PGA Tour "playoffs" are underway -

« **on:** August 23, 2007, 11:48:17 AM »

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!

College football next weekend and the NFL the weekend after that. There's not a marketing budget big enough to keep this from drowning, imo.

« **Reply #1 on:** August 23, 2007, 03:00:08 PM »

I've delayed judgement on this all year...but I might have witnessed the death knell last night on the Golf Channel.

Steve Sands is interviewing Vijay about the tournament and blah blah blah and then asks if he's a little extra excited about this year's event because it's the beginning of the playoffs...

VS - "No, not really"...
SS - "really, not even a little bit more interested?"
VS - "No, why should I be?"
SS - "Well Veej, it's the first event of an historic event, the first ever playoffs"
VS - "No, it really doesn't excite me all that much..."

A killer!

« **Reply #2 on:** August 23, 2007, 03:55:15 PM »

The concept is full of contradictions but I look forward to the events Tiger shows up for.

The contrasting reliance on its stars between golf and football is striking these days. I don't think the Michael Vick story will make a dent in football, despite the fact that Vick is one of the game's biggest stars. That's because the players really don't matter very much. In golf only one guy matters. When he shows up, people pay attention; otherwise they tune out.

« **Reply #3 on:** August 23, 2007, 04:34:43 PM »

How much money has the guy ranked 150th earned this year? Where else can he earn that kind of money?

PGATour is a lot like the tennis circut...boring...except for the majors....no amount of playoffs are going to help..

« **Reply #4 on:** August 24, 2007, 06:15:54 AM »

It will be real exciting if Sabbatini wins this weekend and starts spouting off about tigger again!!!

« **Reply #5 on:** August 24, 2007, 08:20:04 AM »

The official qualifying standard for these playoffs:

1) 144 golfers, or

2) every golfer you've ever heard of ...

whichever is more.

Just to pick on one guy (among many who could be picked on):

How in the hell should Rich Beem be in the "playoffs"?

See his record for the year, at http://www.pgatour.com/players/02/36/14/results/

« **Reply #6 on:** August 24, 2007, 09:08:28 AM »

Quote from: Eric Morrison on August 24, 2007, 06:15:54 AM

It will be real exciting if Sabbatini wins this weekend and starts spouting off about tigger again!!!

he already did about TIger not being there...see Geoff Shackelford's blog today

man, with Tiger skipping and Singh's comments....Finchy must be doing a long slow burn..

« **Reply #7 on:** August 24, 2007, 10:44:16 AM »

Quote from: Craig Sweet on August 23, 2007, 04:34:43 PM

How much money has the guy ranked 150th earned this year? Where else can he earn that kind of money?

Matthias Gronberg is currently #150 in the money rankings and he has made $355,770.

Minimum Salaries Rookie 5 yr vet
Baseball $380k
Basketball $427k $895k
Football $285k $595k
Hockey $450k

And I am betting that the 150th best soccer player makes a lot more than $400k as well.

So what's your point as it looks like golfers are not paid nearly as well as other pro athletes.

And I am betting that thee 150th highest paid CEO makes millions, the 150th highest paid lawyer makes millions, the 150th highest paid accountant makes millions, the 150th highest paid hedge fund managers makes tens of millions,...

« **Reply #8 on:** August 24, 2007, 11:41:18 AM »

Quote from: Wayne_Kozun on August 24, 2007, 10:44:16 AM

Quote from: Craig Sweet on August 23, 2007, 04:34:43 PM
How much money has the guy ranked 150th earned this year? Where else can he earn that kind of money?
Matthias Gronberg is currently #150 in the money rankings and he has made $355,770.

Minimum Salaries Rookie 5 yr vet
Baseball $380k
Basketball $427k $895k
Football $285k $595k
Hockey $450k

And I am betting that the 150th best soccer player makes a lot more than $400k as well.

So what's your point as it looks like golfers are not paid nearly as well as other pro athletes.

And I am betting that thee 150th highest paid CEO makes millions, the 150th highest paid lawyer makes millions, the 150th highest paid accountant makes millions, the 150th highest paid hedge fund managers makes tens of millions,...

Well said Wayne,

And that doesn't even take into account the extra taxes they have to pay by earning that money in several states across the USA and paying state income tax in every last state that requires it.

I read an article a couple of years ago that talked about how a typical PGA pros tax return is several inches thick..well that was before posting online I suppose..

« **Reply #9 on:** August 24, 2007, 11:57:00 AM »

Not sure what difference it makes, but the lower level PGA Tour guys are also able to make a substantial amount from endorsements and pro-ams...I doubt the #150 lawyer or basketball player is doing much in the way of product endorsement...

« **Reply #10 on:** August 24, 2007, 11:59:39 AM »

My point being...even with taxes and other expenses, the 150th ranked player lives a pretty comfortable life....extra effort might move a person up to 125th....but is it worth it? I think they hope to put four good days together and finish top 5 some week,or maybe win once and have a fat pay check, but for the most part they take their $350,000 and are very happy...what else can they do? Be a club pro? Sell equipment?

Here's the thing....I do not think a "playoff" system works in golf...this is not march madness,nor will it ever be...they should simply end the season with the final major...or every year finish with a Ryder Cup type of match and let it be....otherwise, this is all starting to look and feel like the NFL Pro Bowl...

« **Reply #11 on:** August 24, 2007, 12:06:41 PM »

Quote from: JES II on August 24, 2007, 11:57:00 AM

Not sure what difference it makes, but the lower level PGA Tour guys are also able to make a substantial amount from endorsements and pro-ams...I doubt the #150 lawyer or basketball player is doing much in the way of product endorsement...

Perhaps not but the 150th ranked lawyer would be making 10s of millions and the team sports athletes don't have to pay their own expenses - quite the opposite as they get meal allowances. They also don't have to pay for a caddy.

While I don't know for sure I would bet that the extra endorsement money that a low-level PGA guy makes would all go for travel expenses, caddy fees, etc.

« **Reply #12 on:** August 24, 2007, 12:09:53 PM »

Quote from: Craig Sweet on August 24, 2007, 11:59:39 AM

My point being...even with taxes and other expenses, the 150th ranked player lives a pretty comfortable life....extra effort might move a person up to 125th....but is it worth it?

Yes it is because the top 125 retain their full tour card and have much better playing status. That means they will get to play the next year - the guys between 125 and 150 may have to add in some Nationwide events to fill out their schedule.

Actually these 125-150 guys are being helped by the new schedule as they will easily get into events like the Canadian Open and the Wyndham as none of the top players are in these events.

« **Reply #13 on:** August 24, 2007, 12:12:08 PM »

Good point about the travel expenses...my cousin played the Tour in '97 or '98 and made about $50K in earnings and said it was still a very profitable year all in...this is a noname out of Q-school and he was able to generate more than a couple hundred thousand dollars in extras...in 1998!

« **Reply #14 on:** August 24, 2007, 12:19:21 PM »

Quote from: JES II on August 24, 2007, 12:12:08 PM

Good point about the travel expenses...my cousin played the Tour in '97 or '98 and made about $50K in earnings and said it was still a very profitable year all in...this is a noname out of Q-school and he was able to generate more than a couple hundred thousand dollars in extras...in 1998!

Jes,

Interesting point. Do you have any more details on how he was able to come up with that? I'm guessing he would have gotten clubs and balls for free, but clearly he got real endorsement money because $50k in earnings on the tour and you'll have nothing left at the end of the year.

« **Reply #15 on:** August 24, 2007, 12:35:06 PM »

-Drivers are worth a few thousand a week
-Putters the same
-The Bag has to be close to that as well
-Irons might be close but he played some old Slazenger irons until a few years ago...
-There is a Pro-Am each week that pays a couple thousand to each guy on Monday
etc...
Clothes must be worth something...

I would bet that if a guy knew the ropes and really pursued it...a noname guy...he could find a half-million dollars in extras throughout the year...

« **Reply #16 on:** August 24, 2007, 12:40:15 PM »

Outside of the regular weekly equipment money...

How about all the corporate outings and other Pro Am's that even the lesser known guys do all year. That all can add up to some solid $$ by the end of the year.

« **Reply #17 on:** August 27, 2007, 12:09:22 PM »

This how bad the PGA playoffs are being handled and how bad the actual results are after the first event.

First I suddenly realized the whole concept should be to just get oneself in to the Top 30 for the final event. Then just play for the win in Atlanta. This seems obvious to me now, however, the PGA Tour has not realized that this should be the PR message – “The race to the final 30”. Also, a playoff system that requires advanced degrees in both mathematics and computer sciences will never get my excitement. Every day or any day during the season I can look at the MLB standings, and possibly the teams' upcoming schedules and get a good grasp on a team’s status for the race for the post-season.

The second problem shows up in today's FedEx point’s standings. Only 1 player exited the top 30 and thus only 1 entered. Jerry Kelly went from #32 to #24 and Appleby went from #30 to #32. Where is the excitement & purpose for these first three events if the final results will be that over 80% of those in the top 30 before the playoffs may end up in the final 30 championship event.

These first three playoffs seem to be minimally better than the two NCAA teams that get to play a Tuesday night game on cable so as to have to right to lose to a #1 seed.

« **Reply #18 on:** August 27, 2007, 01:34:10 PM »

At least the FedEx Cup has produced one of the great pairings of recent years -- Tiger, Mickelson and Vijay will play together Thurs. and Fri. in Boston. Opening tee exchanges alone might be worth the price of admission.

« **Reply #19 on:** August 27, 2007, 07:05:00 PM »

Gee, what an interesting pairing for the the Tour's computer to come up with "randomly." Methinks this one had a human hand (Tim Finchem's) involved.

« **Reply #20 on:** August 27, 2007, 07:24:50 PM »

Not random at all. They are grouped by point standings. After Westchester Woods, Mickelson and Singh are #4,5, and 6.

« **Reply #21 on:** August 27, 2007, 07:47:31 PM »

The Tour better pray Tiger wins this thing-- At least then they can assert what we already know-- No one can pass Tiger unless they win all 4 (care to give odds on Steve sweeping series?)

If Tiger wins "The Cup" (or whatever they call it), it will tend to reaffirm what we already know-- Tiger is the Player of Year and best player of '07 without any debate, whether he wins the FedEx Cup or not--

If he does not win it, that will not change a thing as to who is the best player, it will simply confirm that the FedEx Cup is a ridiculous exercise--

As someone pointed out, we do not need a four tournment series to establish the best player--We already have those, they are called The Majors,

(Too bad Finchem, the Tour does not run any of the 4. Having failed to cause the TPChampionship to become one is not going to be solved by a contrived series after the Majors (and other events during the year) have already established who the best player is).

« **Reply #22 on:** August 27, 2007, 07:52:35 PM »

I'm not sure why anybody has a problem with the Fedex Cup. From the way I look at it, it's just another way to measure performance. It doesn't diminish or denigrate anything else the tour does.

« **Reply #23 on:** August 27, 2007, 08:47:01 PM »

Bill,I beg to differ.In my view the tour has damaged its best products through rescheduling and generally making them second tier.See LA ,Honolulu,Nelson,Canadian,Detroit Buick.On top of that take the Western from Chicago.

« **Reply #24 on:** August 28, 2007, 06:05:35 PM »

Looks like another top player defection:

Ernie says he needs to be at home for a week..

http://sports.espn.go.com/golf/news/story?id=2994463

How can the playoffs be taken seriously when players who have enough points already know that they can make it to the next round without even showing up??

News:

CharlestonBuckeye

JESII

Phil Benedict

Craig Sweet

Eric Morrison

Dan Kelly

PThomas

Wayne_Kozun

Kalen Braley

JESII

Craig Sweet

Wayne_Kozun

Wayne_Kozun

JESII

Kalen Braley

JESII

JSlonis

Bill Shamleffer

Phil McDade

Tim_Cronin

SL_Solow

Dennis_Harwood

Bill Gayne

mike_beene

Kalen Braley