Who's going to pay for the marshall's to sit there all day?

Charge by the stroke and the slow players would go away.

Charge by the stroke and the slow players would go away.

That of course is total BS. I can play 18 on an empty course with a fellow 20+ handicapper and finish in under 2 hours. How fast can you and one of your low handicap buddies play 18?

EDIT: BTW that is walking and carrying.

I don't understand the math or the physics of the "every 7 minutes"  complaint. A foursome can play a round of golf in 3 and a half hours on most course with little strain. The first group off the tee in the morning could average nearly 12 minutes per hole and still finish in around 3.5 hours.

So the first group tees off, hits their approach shots in about seven minutes, then the next group tees off. If the first group plays at a reasonable pace -- 12 minutes per hole -- there's no backup.

Allowing for lost balls, par threes and reachable par 5s, there will be holes where groups bunch up for a while, but as soon as these temporary bottlenecks are passed, the lead group speeds up again, the group behind them catches up, and we're back on a 3.5 hour pace.

No one has been able to explain to me why this pace can't be maintained. Blaming it on the tee sheet simply excuses the groups already on the course who aren't playing fast enough.

Quote from: John Kavanaugh on August 07, 2007, 01:07:31 PM

Charge by the stroke and the slow players would go away.

That of course is total BS. I can play 18 on an empty course with a fellow 20+ handicapper and finish in under 2 hours. How fast can you and one of your low handicap buddies play 18?

EDIT: BTW that is walking and carrying.

Just cause you play like a dog does not mean you have to time yourself in dog years.  Please name a course where you think you and Paul Thomas or any other legit 20 handicapper can play 18 holes in under two hours and each still break a hundred and I will pay you triple the greenfees.  If you can't you only pay your own way.

Just for giggles let's keep it to a minimum of 6400 YDS.  I see a Dixie Cup Callenge in this.

I don't understand the math or the physics of the "every 7 minutes"  complaint. A foursome can play a round of golf in 3 and a half hours on most course with little strain. The first group off the tee in the morning could average nearly 12 minutes per hole and still finish in around 3.5 hours.

So the first group tees off, hits their approach shots in about seven minutes, then the next group tees off. If the first group plays at a reasonable pace -- 12 minutes per hole -- there's no backup.

Allowing for lost balls, par threes and reachable par 5s, there will be holes where groups bunch up for a while, but as soon as these temporary bottlenecks are passed, the lead group speeds up again, the group behind them catches up, and we're back on a 3.5 hour pace.

No one has been able to explain to me why this pace can't be maintained. Blaming it on the tee sheet simply excuses the groups already on the course who aren't playing fast enough.

Rick,

I agree with you 100% on this one.  It is maintainable and doable.  From what I"ve observed, its really due to a lack of enforcement from the Marshall in the form of either not being consistent in telling them to keep up or just not being there at all.

We've even gone so far as to call the clubhouse from the course and ask for a marshall to be sent out.  But often no one comes.  I understand this puts the course operators in a difficult spot because they don't want to piss off thier clientle.  But when the Marshall is constantly present, and gently reminding slow groups to keep up, it can be very helpful.

Matt,

The turkey with the hybrid isn't doing much to slow up your overall pace of play even if he doesn't or can't hit the green -- as long as his group catches up to the group ahead of them again on the next hole.

It really couldn't be simpler -- if there's a gap between your group and the group ahead of you, you're playing too slow.

Sometimes when playing birdie ball in a cart a frien and I might play 18 in under two hours.  Birdie ball is where you pick up if you are going to make more than birdie and you get payed only for each birdie made.  

I do not think 2 hour 18 hole rounds are a good thing.  It is bad for future design and the enjoyment of the game.

Garland and I could quite easily get around my home course in under 2 hours and shoot under 100 IF there was no one in front of us (which only happens on Sundays in the fall in the Burgh ). Of course, he'd only net about $55, so it really wouldn't be worth the trip.

There's all ranges of handicappers, and all ranges of players speed-wise, and I see little correlation between the two.

Rick's right, just have the early guys set a good pace, and keep up - it's that simple.

The Garden State Parkway doesn't have much problem maintaining speeds around 80 mph, with cars just off each others' bumpers.

Garland and I could quite easily get around my home course in under 2 hours and shoot under 100 IF there was no one in front of us (which only happens on Sundays in the fall in the Burgh ). Of course, he'd only net about $55, so it really wouldn't be worth the trip.

There's all ranges of handicappers, and all ranges of players speed-wise, and I see little correlation between the two.

Rick's right, just have the early guys set a good pace, and keep up - it's that simple.

The Garden State Parkway doesn't have much problem maintaining speeds around 80 mph, with cars just off each others' bumpers.

Set it up at 6400 yds and I will fly out to see you guys make fools out of yourselves.  I thought you were injured.

If you want to have an influence on the pace of play then man up and let the management know that you, and as many other guys as you can find who hate slow play, won't be coming back to their course until they get their hours per round down to a reasonable number.

I've never seen an empty course play slow.  

John K,

If a player is charged by the stroke, how do you measure, including the gimme putts, uncounted penalty strokes (or more likely stroke and distance) etc.?

I like the idea of positive reinforcement, like Marshalls handing out coupons if they see someone doing something, like playing out of order to speed play.  It could be abused, of course.

Maybe you give a coupon out when they return the cart. If under X hours, they get a few bucks off.  Your next green fee is determined by how fast you play.  Same problem though, as everyone will blame the guy in front of them.

BTW, Yates studies do pretty much prove that 7 minute tee times put no more players on the course than 10 minute times. I recall Kemper Lakes started out with either 10 or 12 minute tee times, and it was no sweat to wait a few minutes on the tee for the starter to let you play away.