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Chris_Clouser

The Trophy Club (w/pic)
« on: July 16, 2007, 05:17:12 PM »
You have heard all of us Hoosiers talk about this course, but I can't remember anyone ever posting one photo of the course.  

The location of the golf complex is located slightly outside of town, about two miles off of Interstate 65.  Blessed with some wonderful terrain movement and a natural creek running through the grounds it was easy to imagine a golf course over this one-time farmland.  Tim Liddy was hired to create something akin to the famed Scottish links courses, or as close as he could in central Indiana.  Liddy did just that with a wonderful layout that uses the terrain wonderfully.  He routed a group of holes around a rise in the middle of the golf course and then used the creek as the central focus on another set.  Perhaps the one downfall with the effort, and no fault of Liddy, is the lack of real movement in the eastern most holes where the area is about as flat as could be imagined.  Something else that Liddy did differently on the course was he did not route two separate loops of nine holes.  The player only has the option to play all eighteen with only the finisher running close to the clubhouse.  That is just as well, as no one could pass up to play the holes that were put into place.
   Hazards are often the defining character of a course and using them to their fullest is the most difficult job for any architect.  Liddy worked hard at The Trophy Club to do just that.  The creek is actually in play on six holes, but only cuts through one of them and requiring a forced carry.  Three additional small ponds provide some strategic elements on four other holes throughout the round.  Three of these holes are located in the flatter eastern portion of the course.  Sand bunkers also a prime hazard with over 120 of them found throughout the course.  Like many other Liddy courses, they are flat-bottomed in most cases and run along the edges of the hole.  But in over a half-dozen instances there is a trap in the center-line of the hole, thus requiring some forethought by the player on those particular shots.  The bunkering on the exterior of the holes is often placed into the face of ridges and sloping terrain, highlighting their existence for the player.  
   As mentioned earlier, the natural look of the course is a primary draw.  Part of that is due to the use of native grasses along the exteriors of the holes that often contrast wonderfully with the color and texture of the fairway and green areas.  In many instances this overgrown area is very close to the fairway and at times there was no second cut of rough before going into the deep grasses.  But something that is an unquestionable strength of the course is the use of the flowing terrain by Liddy.  In several instances he was able to use this to create strategic options on the course in the form of alternate fairways and shortcuts over the rougher terrain.  This combined with the excellent maintenance practices create a wonderful looking course that is also blessed with some excellent views.  
   Liddy, like his mentor Pete Dye, is a master green builder and provides some wonderful examples of his ability at Trophy Club.  In many cases the greens are angled towards the preferred line of approach.  This does two things.  It creates some strategic interest to them, but more importantly it also counteracts the inherent advantage to the player who is willing to hit the more daring shot.  In many cases, Liddy then puts a hazard between the player with the best angle and the green, so there is plenty of challenge in finding the putting surface.  Almost all of the greens are located directly alongside sand or water adding to the pressure.  Several of them also have run-offs into hollows or chipping areas around the green that provide numerous options for recovery.  The greens have a similar feel to them as they all run from back to front with one exception.  Some have greater depth and some are turned to have more width.  To really prove his willingness to create eighteen different greens Liddy even created a Biarritz style green on the sixth hole with a deep gulley running through the complex.  

The sixth green.


Holes of note:

Hole 2 – 576 yards - The second gives a wonderful introduction to the set of par fives.  The creek splits the hole diagonally with the option of trying to clear the water at its nearest point or laying back in the fairway.  For those that lay back, the challenge is in the second shot and avoiding the bunkers and trying to get as far down the hole and right as possible.  If you fail to do this, then you have an uphill approach over deep bunkers to the plateau green.  

View from the fairway


Hole 4 – 212 yards - The fourth plays along the edge or a rise with bunkers running along the left side of the hole all the way to the green.  

The tee shot


Hole 5 – 354 yards – A short par four that tempts the player from the tee to try and reach the green by going over all of the deep grass.  A bunker to the right side catches many tee shots.  A nice little par four.

The approach


Hole 8 – 214 yards - A pond is used as the primary hazard to the right as the eighth edges alongside it all the way to the green and creates perhaps the prettiest par three on the course.  Anything in the bunkers on the back side is dead as the green runs hard towards the water.  

The tee shot with water on the right.


Hole 9 – 576 yards - The ninth is over flat terrain but offers several hazards in the center line of the hole that require some thought to get around.  The narrow green, only about ten paces from front to back, is protected in front by a lone bunker.  

The pitch shot into the green must clear the bunker for any middle green pin placements


Hole 10 – 356 yards - The tee shot is out to a plateau for those that are afraid to try and cut the hole over the deep stuff to the left.  The second is then a delicate pitch downhill to a steeply sloped putting surface with dangerous fall-offs both left and long.  For those that attempt to cut the hole but fail there are deep bunkers on the left side to exact a swift and harsh penalty.  This hole reminds me of the 5th at Dornick Hills less the trees.

the tee shot with the fairway rolling down and to the left towards the green.


Hole 11 – 553 yards - The best hole on the course is the eleventh.  The hole is placed along the edge of a ridge and runs along the edge until it reaches the green at the highest point on the course.  The second shot is the most interesting on the course as the player must decide if they will attempt to go around the bunkers in the middle of the fairway to the blind higher side of the fairway or go to the wider lower section.  If they go the lower route, the approach is dramatically uphill to a blind green and over a very deep bunker.  Once at the top of the hill, the course is in almost full view to the player and creates a one of a kind vista.

The approach into the green from the left reveals the elevation change on this hole.


As does the view from behind with the tilt of the land.


Hole 13 – 481 yards - The thirteenth is a wonderful hole with a semi-blind drive over a crest with a downhill approach to an angled green.  

The approach.  Sorry for the poor photo on these two, a storm was blowing in as I was taking the photos.

The green


Hole 15 – 422 yards - The fifteenth may be the best as it features a monster sized bunker on the left that narrows the landing zone of the drive.  The approach then must go over a slight valley with to a green perched into the base of a ridge with gnarly sand bunkers on the right and run-off to the left that leads to a chipping area.  

The tee shot with a big mouth bunker creeping into the left side of the fairway.  Be careful not to go too far right and into the other hazards.

The approach.  Note all the space to the left for pull approaches that is cut at fairway height.


Hole 16 – 519 yards - The sixteenth runs along the creek from tee to green with no hope if one goes just slightly left as the fairway becomes tighter all the way to the hole.

From behind you see how close the creek is to the green and how the ridge runs into the elevated green surface.


Hole 17 – 220 yards - The most different of the par threes is the last of the group, the seventeenth.  It is surrounded on three sides by deep grass faced bunkers while presenting the most intimidating of the group.  

A unique hole for the course.


Hole 18 – 467 yards - The closer is no sleeper.  The drive goes out to a sloping fairway as it doglegs from left to right.  The green is placed into a rise with bunkers protecting the inside line of the hole.  

 A look back down the final hole from above the green.  

« Last Edit: July 17, 2007, 07:14:25 AM by Chris_Clouser »

Matt_Ward

Re:The Trophy Club (w/pic)
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2007, 05:19:56 PM »
Chris:

Put The Trophy Club in any of the 10 large metro areas -- especially NYC, LA, CHI and PHILA and it would generate even more awareness.

I love the course and believe it's one of the top public affordable courses one should play in the USA. Any visit to the greater Indy area that doesn't include it on one's itinerary is missing something very special indeed.

P.S. I am a big time fan of the par-4 13th hole !


Chris_Clouser

Re:The Trophy Club (w/pic)
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2007, 05:22:23 PM »
Matt,

I would say it and fifteenth were my favorite par fours.  To be honest, the only hole on the course I felt a little indifferent about was the 7th.  

Oh, and notice the ball on the greens for 6, 13 and 18.  That's my shot.  Too bad I took the photo on 16 after kicking in my 2 foot birdie putt.   ;D

It is easily one of the top 3 or 4 publics in the state.  

Chris Cupit

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Trophy Club (w/pic)
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2007, 06:04:40 PM »
Just based on the pics it looks like a really cool golf course. The fourth hole, (par 3??) looks especially good :)

What's the yahoo in the golf cart doing so close to the bunker in the last picture though? :o

Steve Burrows

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Trophy Club (w/pic)
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2007, 06:23:36 PM »
I thoroughly enjoyed The Trophy Club, but, if I had one criticism, it is that the centerline hazards on 18 are blind from the tee, and give no hint as to their presence until you are in them.  

I can appreciate the argument that they are only blind once (the first time one plays the course), but I also believe that, while blind shots are intriging and exciting, centerline hazards, which exist to allow players to make a decision of some sort, should be visible, or otherwise there is no decision to be made.
...to admit my mistakes most frankly, or to say simply what I believe to be necessary for the defense of what I have written, without introducing the explanation of any new matter so as to avoid engaging myself in endless discussion from one topic to another.     
               -Rene Descartes

Chris_Clouser

Re:The Trophy Club (w/pic)
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2007, 07:12:10 PM »
Sean,

The green for 2 and the higher plateau for 11's approach are on the same ridge, so I don't think that was built up.  Liddy just used what he found I believe.  If he sees this thread perhaps he can chime in and tell us for sure.  

Tim would also have to comment on the higher fairways but I can see what you talking about on 4 and 8.  And yes the feature on 15 was cool.  

Chris,

That guy in the cart was who I got paired with early in the round as I caught him looking for a ball on 2 for over 10 minutes.

But, he's a 4 handicap.   ::)  

Steve,

If those bunkers on 18 were in the line of play off the tee for you then you must really bomb it.  It's over 300 out to the closest one off the back tees.  I'm assuming you walked, otherwise the yardage guides in the cart would let you know they were there.  And I just realized this, if you look at the hole from the 16th green you can see all of the trouble on 18.  So there is a chance to see the hazards.  I get what you're saying though.

Steve Kline

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Trophy Club (w/pic)
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2007, 09:09:23 PM »
The pictures look really cool, but why would you design three par three's of virtually the same distance - 212, 214, 220? I never like when architects do that. I like variety and find that many newer courses have par three's that almost exactly the same yardage wise. Something really long or really short is a nice change of pace.

Glenn Spencer

Re:The Trophy Club (w/pic)
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2007, 11:11:07 PM »
The pictures look really cool, but why would you design three par three's of virtually the same distance - 212, 214, 220? I never like when architects do that. I like variety and find that many newer courses have par three's that almost exactly the same yardage wise. Something really long or really short is a nice change of pace.

FWIW, this is the last thing in the world that will be on your mind after playing The Trophy Club.


Chris and Matt,

I actually did not like 13, the first time that I played there. The second time around, I did start to like it more like the way you guys do. What about the first hole? I really, really like that one? Does anybody like 6? I love that green.  3 is a little different, but I think that is a pretty good hole. I am also a big fan of 12 and 17. 17 is my favorite hole on the course, I think. Indifference? You are on to something on 7 Chris. I did not fall for 10 though. It seems a little on the goofy side to me. I thought it a shame because I liked 9 and loved 11,12, just thought 10 was not there. There is a comment about the centerline bunkers on 18. Are they in play? Hell, I played there 5 times and I don't remember them. Are they reachable even?
« Last Edit: July 16, 2007, 11:11:46 PM by Glenn Spencer »

Chris_Clouser

Re:The Trophy Club (w/pic)
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2007, 07:11:59 AM »
Steve,

For what its worth each one of the holes plays a different direction so the wind will drastically affect how you play the hole.  All three that I showed have trouble in different spots, 4 on the left, 8 on the right and 17, well its everywhere.

Glenn,

I agree, the green on 6 is great.  Perhaps it could have been a little bit bigger so the front pin positions aren't so tight.  The raised front makes it a little difficult to run shots on.  But I kept the ball pin high in the photo I posted so it can't be that bad.  

I'm not sure I'm too crazy about 3 though.  It is too long a carry off the tee to have any options, so it is pretty much a longer dogleg par four with a predefined path to me.  Perhaps for longer hitters there is something there.

Perhaps your thoughts on 10 are right, but maybe the reason you like three and it isn't high on my list is the same reason for 10 being on my list.  They just fit our games differently.  10 was almost the perfect hole for me, but I could see how a longer hitter could be really against the hole.  I just thought the way the Liddy worked the hole off the elevation from the right down to the green to the left was pretty smooth.  Also, if you lay up off the tee that pitch is very intimdating because long leaves you nothing but a pitch back up a steep slope.

1 was fine, but for some reason didn't overwhelm me in any way.  I have a really good photo at home that I can post of it though if I think about it tonight.

That is something I have not found yet on any of the public courses I have visited, a great opening hole.  
« Last Edit: July 17, 2007, 07:18:32 AM by Chris_Clouser »

Eric_Terhorst

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Trophy Club (w/pic)
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2007, 08:05:13 AM »
Chris,

Thanks for posting.  The Trophy Club was on my list to see this year, and you've further whet the appetite.

In fact, I had in mind "A Day with Tim Liddy."  Start at Trophy in the early morning, play Kampen in the early afternoon, then Harrison Hills  in the hours before dusk.  What do you think--can it be done?  :D


Chris_Clouser

Re:The Trophy Club (w/pic)
« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2007, 08:23:58 AM »
Eric,

Depends on pace of play.  The drive time from TC to Kampen is probably about 45 minutes and then about a half hour from Kampen to Harrison Hills.  But it is possible.  Not sure I would want to do it.  I would feel like I'm rushing through just to complete something without actually soaking it in.  

Scott_Burroughs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Trophy Club (w/pic)
« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2007, 08:24:32 AM »
The Trophy Club from above, which was AOTD #265:



Also, here's the club's web site, which has a photo tour of the course: http://www.thetrophyclubgolf.com/

Tim Liddy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Trophy Club (w/pic) New
« Reply #12 on: July 17, 2007, 09:23:07 AM »
Thanks Chris and everyone for the comments.  I agree it looks a little busy to me since I have been away from it for a few years.

Jeff Loss, the superintendent, does a great job maintaining the golf course with about $350,000 a year –just incredible (a true Scottish tradition).

Much of my influence on the routing of Trophy Club was Seminole with its one prominent ridge running through the property and used by Ross so creatively. This ridgeline is used on golf holes #1, #9, #10, and #13. Many historical references on golf holes throughout the project including Sahara, the Biarritz and spectacle bunkers. 

The remoteness and long views of the Indiana horizon add much to the enjoyment of the golf course. Development is heading towards it, so not sure how long it will last. Also, the photos do not capture the big scale of the fairways, many 200 feet wide. I was afforded over 200 acres and wanted to take full advantage of it.

The state Open has been held at Trophy Club twice. They have tried different tee lengths for the tournament, but it does not matter much as the greens (and strategy) defend the score.

I hope to go back and “freshen” the bunkers, maybe in a few years.

« Last Edit: April 12, 2018, 10:46:18 PM by Tim Liddy »

Matt_Ward

Re:The Trophy Club (w/pic)
« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2007, 10:02:55 AM »
Tim:

In designing The Trophy Club were there other holes you worked on with Pete that were the starting point for ideas on what you wanted to do there?

P.S. As I said previously, place TTC in a much more noticed metro area and the fanfare of the course would be a good bit higher than it is today.

John Nixon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Trophy Club (w/pic)
« Reply #14 on: July 17, 2007, 10:24:56 AM »
Great write up and pics, Chris, thanks. You're right, for as often as this course gets mentioned whenever Indiana golf comes up, no one ever puts up any photos. And the photos on the course website are, well, somewhat lacking.

Trophy Club is on my list of courses to play this year - I've not yet managed to make that arduous trek all the way from Carmel.

Lynn_Shackelford

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Trophy Club (w/pic)
« Reply #15 on: July 17, 2007, 11:02:24 AM »
Based on these pictures I would very much like to play this course.
By the way, the 17th looks like a cross between a Seth Raynor hole and the 17th at the Citrus Course in La Quinta.  I wonder if Liddy was involved in building the Pete Dye Citrus course?
I only played it once, but I believe the Citrus remains one of the Cochella Valley's most underrated courses.
It must be kept in mind that the elusive charm of the game suffers as soon as any successful method of standardization is allowed to creep in.  A golf course should never pretend to be, nor is intended to be, an infallible tribunal.
               Tom Simpson

Chris_Clouser

Re:The Trophy Club (w/pic)
« Reply #16 on: July 17, 2007, 11:13:48 AM »
John,

You sure you can get all the way out to Lebanon.  I would think the Mercedes or BMW you Carmelites all drive wouldn't be able to handle on anything but those golden streets.   ;D

 

John Nixon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Trophy Club (w/pic)
« Reply #17 on: July 17, 2007, 12:38:41 PM »
John,

You sure you can get all the way out to Lebanon.  I would think the Mercedes or BMW you Carmelites all drive wouldn't be able to handle on anything but those golden streets.   ;D

 

Note to self: Stop referring to Carmel in posts; jealousy is a terrible thing to witness from the peons.

Andy Troeger

Re:The Trophy Club (w/pic)
« Reply #18 on: July 17, 2007, 10:52:50 PM »
Chris,

Thanks for posting.  The Trophy Club was on my list to see this year, and you've further whet the appetite.

In fact, I had in mind "A Day with Tim Liddy."  Start at Trophy in the early morning, play Kampen in the early afternoon, then Harrison Hills  in the hours before dusk.  What do you think--can it be done?  :D



Eric,
Throw Sultan's Run and Rock Hollow in and make it a 2-3 day event and you'd have something very cool indeed. I want to say Tim had a fair amount to do with the Fort too.

Kenny Lee Puckett

Re:The Trophy Club (w/pic)
« Reply #19 on: July 18, 2007, 06:59:44 AM »
I have played the Trophy Club twice on my infrequent visits to Indianapolis and marveled not only at Mr. Liddy's routing, but also at the supurb job of shaping the bunkers.

Both visits were in late March/Earlly April, and I can say that the Open Championship conditions of 20-30mph winds, driving rains and 45-60 degree temperatures made the links style really work.

#10 and #11 are two of my favorites on this course.  I enjoy the downhill/uphill ordering of these two along with their tight demand of the first along with the more wide open play of angles on the second.

On the first nine, #4 & #5 are highlights for me.  #4 demands a solid one shot, and #5 is a go for broke teaser.

This club is a definite play for a great look at what can be accomplished when super golf course meets affordable pricing.

JWK

Glenn Spencer

Re:The Trophy Club (w/pic)
« Reply #20 on: July 18, 2007, 09:51:12 AM »
How long are you people? I have seen a couple of comments on #5 now. What is the temptation exactly? The hole is 369 yards long.

Kenny Lee Puckett

Re:The Trophy Club (w/pic)
« Reply #21 on: July 18, 2007, 09:55:29 AM »
Long enough to put it in the front bunker for a straight forward up and down...

John Nixon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Trophy Club (w/pic)
« Reply #22 on: January 13, 2011, 03:29:10 PM »
Development is heading towards it, so not sure how long it will last.

Planning my rounds for the upcoming '11 season and reviewing some courses here, came across this statement from Mr. Liddy.

Tim, the last 3.5 years have not brought development measurably closer. Relax.    :)

Scott Szabo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Trophy Club (w/pic)
« Reply #23 on: January 13, 2011, 03:35:53 PM »
The pictures look really cool, but why would you design three par three's of virtually the same distance - 212, 214, 220? I never like when architects do that. I like variety and find that many newer courses have par three's that almost exactly the same yardage wise. Something really long or really short is a nice change of pace.

My thoughts too.  Are these the only par threes on the course?  If not, how do the other(s) play?
"So your man hit it into a fairway bunker, hit the wrong side of the green, and couldn't hit a hybrid off a sidehill lie to take advantage of his length? We apologize for testing him so thoroughly." - Tom Doak, 6/29/10

Matt_Ward

Re: The Trophy Club (w/pic)
« Reply #24 on: January 13, 2011, 03:38:02 PM »
One of the real sleeper states for quality public golf has to be Indiana.

Plenty of solid golf options and many of them are very reasonable in terms of fees.

The Trophy Club would have even more stature if it was located in a major metro area -- such as LA, NYC or Chicago.

Just a fun course to play.

Scott:

The tee and pin placements can make for a much wider disparity -- ditto for the daily winds that can kick-up at anytime.

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