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mark chalfant

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Colorado Golf club
« on: July 11, 2007, 04:15:05 PM »

Calling  Matt Ward and  Adam Messix et al, would love to hear your thoughts on this course  near Denver

thanks
« Last Edit: July 12, 2007, 12:11:34 AM by mark chalfant »

Garland Bayley

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Re:Colorado Golf club
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2007, 04:19:40 PM »
I found this with the google search
"colorado golf club" site:golfclubatlas.com

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forums2/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=19787
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Matt_Ward

Re:Colorado Golf club
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2007, 06:07:47 PM »
Have not played it -- yet. ;D


Tommy Williamsen

  • Total Karma: -6
Re:Colorado Golf club
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2007, 10:17:07 PM »
I am playing there in August.  I can't wait and I will be sure to let you know after I play it.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

mark chalfant

  • Total Karma: 0
Re:Colorado Golf Club (Coore/ Crenshaw)
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2007, 11:57:15 PM »
some notable features at this private gem:

1.Inspired use of natural terrain including creeks, dry washes, that affect  play on several  par threes and par fives. The sporty 168 yd # 2 over a ravine evokes Prairie Dunes

2. Elevation changes use  to strengthen several uphill par 4s. The  stunning tenth, (470yds) is notable for a dramatic drop shot approach which reqiures precise distance control.

3. Wonderful ground contours that often intrude 15-30 yards  short of  the splendid green complexes. I believe Jim Craig crafted many

In sum, memorable meandering routing, with rich textures, which makes for a great walk. Worth a special trip if you are within 500  miles of Denver
« Last Edit: July 14, 2007, 01:40:05 AM by mark chalfant »

Scott Szabo

  • Total Karma: 0
Re:Colorado Golf Club (Coore/ Crenshaw)
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2007, 12:55:01 PM »

 memorable meandering routing which makes for a great walk, worth a trip  if within 500  miles of Denver


Mark,

Don't forget the access issue - it is still a private club!  
"So your man hit it into a fairway bunker, hit the wrong side of the green, and couldn't hit a hybrid off a sidehill lie to take advantage of his length? We apologize for testing him so thoroughly." - Tom Doak, 6/29/10

Andy Troeger

Re:Colorado Golf Club (Coore/ Crenshaw)
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2007, 10:57:44 PM »
some notable features at this private gem:

1.Inspired use of natural terrain including creeks, dry washes, that affect  play on several  par threes and par fives. The sporty 168 yd # 2 over a ravine evokes Prairie Dunes

2. Elevation changes use  to strengthen several uphill par 4s. The  stunning tenth, (470yds) is notable for a dramatic drop shot approach which reqiures precise distance control.

3. Wonderful ground contours that often intrude 15-30 yards  short of  the splendid green complexes. I believe Jim Craig crafted many

In sum, memorable meandering routing, with rich textures, which makes for a great walk.

Mark,
Played Colorado GC this morning. I agree with your sentiments, its a fabulous golf course. #16 might be the best split fairway hole I've played in terms of making it worthwhile to consider both sides from the tee instead of making everyone go the same direction.

One thing...CGC is TOUGH. Much harder than any other C & C course I've played. Warren is tough because of the way the course is set up. CGC is designed certainly with the potential to host competitions as well as for the enjoyment of its membership. Its playable when played from the correct tees, but the 7200 and 7600 yard sets of tees will give you all you want even at 6,000 feet of elevation.

Mark_Fine

  • Total Karma: -17
Re:Colorado Golf club
« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2007, 11:06:23 PM »
Andy,
You beat me to my key thought about this course - TOUGH!  I walked it with the one owner when it was growing in and that is what they wanted - tough!
Mark

PThomas

  • Total Karma: -21
Re:Colorado Golf club
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2007, 11:12:17 PM »
it's pretty darn good!  more thoughts in the next few days...
199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

Jim Franklin

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Re:Colorado Golf club
« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2007, 09:57:03 AM »
I will second what some of the guys have said that Colorado GC is a tough course and tougher than your typical C&C design. I loved the split fairway too and thought the waterfall was a nice touch. I have never seen a waterfall by C&C and it actually fit the terrain and feel of the course. It did not seem contrived at all. Let's just say it was not a Trumpfall.

There was good movement in the fairways and the greens were very intreresting. All in all I thought it was a terrific place.
Mr Hurricane

John Kavanaugh

Re:Colorado Golf Club (Coore/ Crenshaw)
« Reply #10 on: July 18, 2007, 10:39:36 AM »

 memorable meandering routing which makes for a great walk, worth a trip  if within 500  miles of Denver


Mark,

Don't forget the access issue - it is still a private club!  

Is it US or UK private?  

Noel,

I'm confused why you would choose a route that you lost a ball and took a generous illegal drop..everytime to boot.  Isn't there a chance you lost a ball because of more than an implied risk.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2007, 10:46:25 AM by John Kavanaugh »

Scott_Burroughs

  • Total Karma: 0
Re:Colorado Golf club
« Reply #11 on: July 18, 2007, 10:46:38 AM »
Noel,

I agree with you on #16, that the left fairway (the easier one to hit) actually had a better angle in (can run it on from well short) vs. the slightly shorted right side, where you must fly it there (landing left may bounce on....or not).  I don't agree with you on the other 3 holes.

I thought that the severe (and small) green on the short 2nd was TOO severe, given the very fast and firm conditions they have there.  It seemed as only a small % of tee shots would ever stay on the green....the upper tier practically none.

I also thought that the 'kick' mounds short right of the long par 3 6th were too short of the green to be used, given there's a decent carry just to reach the fairway....so you can't hit it low enough to use them.  I hit it right at them, but flew them, and was still short of the center of the green.

John Kavanaugh

Re:Colorado Golf club
« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2007, 10:50:24 AM »
It has become glaringly obvious that if you want lots of rater play hire Coore & Crenshaw at your own risk.  Why anyone would want these hit and run opinions posted on a public web site is beyond me.  I think confidentiality agreements in exchange for access will be required in the near future.  Word of mouth is one thing but this is getting out of hand.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2007, 10:51:55 AM by John Kavanaugh »

John Kavanaugh

Re:Colorado Golf club
« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2007, 11:01:45 AM »
Noel,

I said nothing about paying as I know that is always your preference as you have told me many times.

My problem with your opinion of the hole has not improved now that I hear that your ball crossed a red stake and you took a drop.  I know of several cases on other courses where the preferred angle is next to a hazard but it is not worth the challenge.  I find your logic flawed if you think the penalty of a drop does not count.  Perhaps the other fairway is not so likely to cause both a lost ball and a penalty stroke.

John Kavanaugh

Re:Colorado Golf club
« Reply #14 on: July 18, 2007, 11:05:05 AM »
Noel

I agree.  It's not worth posting opinions on here any more only to get the rater crusade backlash.

I'll stick to OT filler garbage to pad my post totals until I am again a GCA g-d.

Where is the rater backlash?  I know that I have been told that if I do not agree with any Golfweek rater then it is because I have a personallity problem but how can you defend Noel's position based on him taking a free drop?

Jim Franklin

  • Total Karma: 0
Re:Colorado Golf club
« Reply #15 on: July 18, 2007, 11:19:33 AM »
Noel -

Kinloch has three split fairways and I don't think all work either. I like the C&C split fairway as it is different than anyhting I have seen them do. As for the wash in the desert, I still don't think it "looks" contrived. I liked it, it was different for them architecturally. Now, if they had water flowing all over the property then that would be something else, but they don't.

And John, I don't understand your hit and run issue. I enjoy seeing different places and the variety golf has to offer. If that is hitting and running then so be it. If you can figure out another alternative to seeing different courses in different cities with 3 little kids at home and a business to run then I am all ears.
Mr Hurricane

Noel Freeman

Re:Colorado Golf club
« Reply #16 on: July 18, 2007, 11:24:52 AM »
Jim, we are simpatico on Kinloch then.

John Kavanaugh

Re:Colorado Golf club
« Reply #17 on: July 18, 2007, 11:36:36 AM »

And John, I don't understand your hit and run issue. I enjoy seeing different places and the variety golf has to offer. If that is hitting and running then so be it. If you can figure out another alternative to seeing different courses in different cities with 3 little kids at home and a business to run then I am all ears.


I hit and run myself even though I don't travel much.  I have been lucky to play each new course I have seen this year multiple times in leu of seeing others...I think it was a good choice for me as I am only responsible to my own enjoyment.

I do have a problem with anyone who thinks they can declare a split fairway built by a competent architect to not work after one play.  I have seen these opinions by people who have played Victoria National once and they are dead wrong as wind and pin placements change day in and day out...not to mention tee and or drive position.  I understand that Noel has an architect friend but I shared the vaginal canal with an architect and still do not have such an eye for a one time assessment.

The C&C bashing has gotten old fast...It was fun the first time but now smells of fadism.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2007, 11:40:19 AM by John Kavanaugh »

John Kavanaugh

Re:Colorado Golf club
« Reply #18 on: July 18, 2007, 11:47:38 AM »
it's pretty darn good!  more thoughts in the next few days...

Please do provide your thoughts as most posters thus far have been low handicaps.  I'm interested how a course built for scratch events presented itself to you.  Thank you.

If you are like me..I would think you would prefer the right side of split fairways because of a traditional fade bias.  I always feel that way double so when red stakes are out left.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2007, 11:48:48 AM by John Kavanaugh »

redanman

Re:Colorado Golf Club (Coore/ Crenshaw)
« Reply #19 on: July 18, 2007, 11:54:46 AM »
Quote
#16 might be the best split fairway hole I've played in terms of making it worthwhile to consider both sides from the tee instead of making everyone go the same direction.

Have you played Saguaro with its split fairway hole and how do you compare the two if you did? Anyone who has, please?  I thought the one at Saguaro was really well done, your basic bottle hole, if you will.

It seems CGC is worth a look and probably a departure from the current formula. There are enough new CO courses to get me back out there again.  Nice thing is that you can play so late into the year in CO unless you get snowed on and have to wait a day or two for it to clear. Gotta find the time .......
« Last Edit: July 18, 2007, 11:56:37 AM by W.Vostinak »

Noel Freeman

Re:Colorado Golf club
« Reply #20 on: July 18, 2007, 12:04:05 PM »
posts deleted..  :-X
« Last Edit: July 18, 2007, 01:16:37 PM by NA Freeman »

Adam Clayman

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Re:Colorado Golf club
« Reply #21 on: July 18, 2007, 12:08:52 PM »
The sixteenth hole is the visual and difficulty climax of the course. It really is a beautiful sight, albeit somewhat expected, as the course has been building to that point.

The day we played it, the pin on 17 was back left, which was clearly their best sucker pin.  But not all that difficult. With the right kick plate being so pronounced, I was not tempted to aim towards the hole and had tons of fun running a low sling shot off the kickplate.
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

RJ_Daley

  • Total Karma: 1
Re:Colorado Golf club
« Reply #22 on: July 18, 2007, 12:26:54 PM »
Quote
Savoring a shandy in the clubhouse afterwards, I saw Paul's evenkeeled, polite English manner decidedly turn outright hostile.  A few tables over were a gaggle of "old boys" as Paul labeled them.  English public school graduates, all in their 60s with wisps of gray hair, looking like rumpled muffins.  The spoke with hearty laughs, wore salmon coloured trousers and seemed to be savoring their glasses of claret--here here (boisterous laugh).. Paul with his modicum of middle class equanimity almost gave them a Sicilian like sneer.

Quote
I do have a problem with anyone who thinks they can declare a split fairway built by a competent architect to not work after one play.  I have seen these opinions by people who have played Victoria National once and they are dead wrong as wind and pin placements change day in and day out...not to mention tee and or drive position.  I understand that Noel has an architect friend but I shared the vaginal canal with an architect and still do not have such an eye for a one time assessment.

Clearly, the above are two different styles and approaches to writing about the subject of golf and GCA.  Both are great entertainment, in their very different ways.  One, is a pleasurable read of wit and charm, and one usually hits you over the head like a purse with a brick in it.  Both, are an expression of very active minds that either sooth or provoke.  Granted, one style has the ever present possibility to rile one up to the point of being offended or question why even bother to engage this knucklehead.  

But, when Dr. Childs and Mr. Freeman question why they sometimes bother to even write their opinions and express their ideas or describe their observations on this website, guys like me get anxious and are sent searching for some way to make sure that the writers in the ring find an incentive to keep writing.  For many of us who aren't so well skilled to write or can't hit and run top venues in world class style, we look forward to the savory differences of prospective and expression, as we see in the above examples.  

Both of you (and you too Geoff) please keep up the good work and don't be temprorarily discouraged by the opposite personality's more provocative expression.  We all know the trademark styles by now and usually can put them in their proper perspective.  


PS:  oops, I didn't see the NAFFer's disclaimer and copyright warning.  Will Shivas rep me or sue me for violation thereof?  ;) ::) ;D
« Last Edit: July 18, 2007, 12:29:10 PM by RJ_Daley »
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

George Pazin

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Re:Colorado Golf club
« Reply #23 on: July 18, 2007, 12:40:25 PM »
Quote
GolfClubAtlas.com is presented to promote the frank commentary on the world's finest golf courses.

John, what is it about this sentence that you don't understand?
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

John Kavanaugh

Re:Colorado Golf club
« Reply #24 on: July 18, 2007, 01:18:40 PM »
Quote
GolfClubAtlas.com is presented to promote the frank commentary on the world's finest golf courses.

John, what is it about this sentence that you don't understand?

I understand that any club profiled by Ran would be proud to have every member read the review.   I don't understand why more people don't question every review built on a negative foundation.  I do indeed find them dangerous in respect to the generous US private club model that I love.  I appreciate Noel's responses to me as I think they have cleared things up and diffused some of the initial negativity which will always leave a sour taste in owners and members mouths.  We even learned something in the process.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2007, 01:21:08 PM by John Kavanaugh »