Three day series on Black Mesa ***Chapt. three now up!***

« **on:** July 11, 2007, 01:39:53 PM »

I'm doing a three part series on Black Mesa for my website and for Golf Observer. Ran was good enough to offer some quotes and insights for it and we think we found some interesting things. Enjoy.

Part one of Black Mesa = http://jayflemma.thegolfspace.com/?p=656

Part Two of Black Mesa = http://jayflemma.thegolfspace.com/?p=658

Part Three - Black Mesa - Is it the White Album?
http://jayflemma.thegolfspace.com/?p=659

Ran, thanks for your help. By th way, Ran also cleared me to use his interview with Baxter Spann in my book, so look for Ran's outstanding insights on that soon!

« **Reply #1 on:** July 11, 2007, 01:53:39 PM »

Jay,

You're killing me. my August trip will just not get here soon enough!

« **Reply #2 on:** July 11, 2007, 02:39:12 PM »

Don't die yet! Wait till you get there before expiring...soemwhere on the 16th fairway!

Have a great time out there.

« **Reply #3 on:** July 11, 2007, 03:01:41 PM »

Jay,

I'm sure it will be a trip to remember.

I 've been told the difference in difficulty between the black and blue tees is rather significant. Is there any reason that an 8-15 handicap will find the back tees too hard, or a 0-5 handicap find that the blue tees are not demanding enough?

I ask because we are playing 36 in the same day, and was wondering if moving up/back would provide different challenges from the previous round of the day.

« **Reply #4 on:** July 11, 2007, 04:25:24 PM »

Quote from: Wyatt Halliday on July 11, 2007, 03:01:41 PM

I 've been told the difference in difficulty between the black and blue tees is rather significant. Is there any reason that an 8-15 handicap will find the back tees too hard, or a 0-5 handicap find that the blue tees are not demanding enough?

I ask because we are playing 36 in the same day, and was wondering if moving up/back would provide different challenges from the previous round of the day.

Here's my best guess...I really believe that an 8-15 wil get eaten alive on the back tees. I'm a 16 and I got eaten alive on the blues. I'm a firm believer in "play the correct tees." Likewise, I dont thnk a 0-5 will have any chance of being disappointed or not challenged on he blues...the challenge merely continues when you reach those difficult, but wonderful greens. So you 0-5 may hit driver wedge...but he better putt well or else he'll have as bad a scorecard as a novice.

« **Reply #5 on:** July 11, 2007, 04:49:23 PM »

Thanks Jay,

It appears from the pictures that I have seen that playing the blue tees may bring in more strategic choices for a low handicap player moving up. For instance, #1 appears to be long iron to the fairway from the back tees, whereas moving up may bring driver out of the bag. Is this a consistent theme throughout?

« **Reply #6 on:** July 11, 2007, 05:52:58 PM »

Well that's a god question...since I played only one set of tees...and played in a snowstorm (do not adjust your set, that line is correct), I'm not sure.

« **Reply #7 on:** July 11, 2007, 06:05:30 PM »

Wyatt:

Just a piece of advice from having played the course a few times. Follow the advice of Clint Eastwood when he said, "A man's got to know his limitations."

If you venture to the tips at Black Mesa your driver or whatever you hit from back there has to be in 10000000% top shelf working order.

The golf course places a huge premium in getting to the right spots on the fairways.

« **Reply #8 on:** July 11, 2007, 06:55:32 PM »

Wyatt,
I'm a 3 hcp and have played the blues both times I've been there. Its plenty tough enough (and fun!) without needing more. At 7300 yds, I think a 15 would have a long long day.

« **Reply #9 on:** July 11, 2007, 07:21:54 PM »

One of my standard lines for folks about to embark on a round here at Black Mesa is to "Play shots you have." I think that is what Matt is refering to about the driver and the back tees.

« **Reply #10 on:** July 11, 2007, 07:38:25 PM »

Jay, I just finished reading your pieces on MY course, Eddie Peck would be nobody without me.

« **Reply #11 on:** July 12, 2007, 10:11:31 AM »

Quote from: Wyatt Halliday on July 11, 2007, 03:01:41 PM

Jay,

I'm sure it will be a trip to remember.

I 've been told the difference in difficulty between the black and blue tees is rather significant. Is there any reason that an 8-15 handicap will find the back tees too hard, or a 0-5 handicap find that the blue tees are not demanding enough?

I ask because we are playing 36 in the same day, and was wondering if moving up/back would provide different challenges from the previous round of the day.

Just wanted to offer maybe a slightly different take from the other folks.

I'd say it depends on why each fellow has the handicap he does. If the 8-15 is a relatively straight driver, but maybe doesn't have a matching short game, he could probably handle the back tees. Likewise, if the 0-5 guy is a bit wild but a Seve-like scrambler, he might not enjoy the back tees.

Andy's words ring true to me. If you're playing 36, why not play the blues first and adjust or not accordingly?

« **Reply #12 on:** July 12, 2007, 10:13:00 AM »

Wyatt --

No matter what tees you play, you're going to have some blind shots and your not going to know where the fairway ends, how far to the bunker, ditch, etc. No yardage books , GPS or caddies. So enjoy the course, but you'll play even better during your second round there.

Matt

« **Reply #13 on:** July 12, 2007, 11:12:49 AM »

Absolutely, Pat - your contribution and Mike Nuzzo's are absolutely integral to Black Mesa being so superlative. I will get to you and Mike and the Tribe as well, I promise...in fact IM me with some quotes and ideas and I'll throw them in the article and my book. Or call me.

From part 3:

"Tobacco Road and Black Mesa take the player on a Jungian journey into the stygian recesses of his psyche using golf as a metaphor. There is no escaping the dark and mysterious atmosphere they exude. (That’s “dark” in the new sense of the word meaning “brooding and mysterious,” not “dark” in the old sense of the word meaning “dimly lit”)."

« **Reply #14 on:** July 12, 2007, 07:32:48 PM »

Quote from: Jay Flemma on July 12, 2007, 11:12:49 AM

From part 3:

Tobacco Road and Black Mesa take the player on a Jungian journey into the stygian recesses of his psyche using golf as a metaphor.

Golf as a metaphor for what? Golf as the vehicle for the journey? Golf as the stimulus for the journey?

« **Reply #15 on:** July 12, 2007, 08:22:31 PM »

Yes, golf is the vehicle for the journey. Check your ego at the door and get in adventurous state of mind. This course is downright mindblowing - so take it to the limit.

« **Reply #16 on:** July 14, 2007, 12:50:42 AM »

Quote from: Jay Flemma on July 12, 2007, 08:22:31 PM

Yes, golf is the vehicle for the journey. Check your ego at the door and get in adventurous state of mind. This course is downright mindblowing - so take it to the limit.

Jay,
Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, mate.

Cheers,
Brad

« **Reply #17 on:** July 14, 2007, 10:36:54 AM »

and a large hill in front of you on the first tee is just that, just like a hill with a V in it is just a hill with a V in it..

p.s. Kudos should be given to Pat Brockwell, Supt. for keeping the Black Mesa gca dream alive and well!

« **Reply #18 on:** July 14, 2007, 10:52:27 AM »

"Tobacco Road and Black Mesa take the player on a Jungian journey into the stygian recesses of his psyche using golf as a metaphor. There is no escaping the dark and mysterious atmosphere they exude. (That’s “dark” in the new sense of the word meaning “brooding and mysterious,” not “dark” in the old sense of the word meaning “dimly lit”)."

Come on, what is this a writing assignment for Hyperbole 101 at the local community college?

« **Reply #19 on:** July 14, 2007, 12:48:27 PM »

Quote from: George Pazin on July 12, 2007, 10:11:31 AM

Quote from: Wyatt Halliday on July 11, 2007, 03:01:41 PM
Jay,

I'm sure it will be a trip to remember.

I 've been told the difference in difficulty between the black and blue tees is rather significant. Is there any reason that an 8-15 handicap will find the back tees too hard, or a 0-5 handicap find that the blue tees are not demanding enough?

I ask because we are playing 36 in the same day, and was wondering if moving up/back would provide different challenges from the previous round of the day.

Just wanted to offer maybe a slightly different take from the other folks.

I'd say it depends on why each fellow has the handicap he does. If the 8-15 is a relatively straight driver, but maybe doesn't have a matching short game, he could probably handle the back tees. Likewise, if the 0-5 guy is a bit wild but a Seve-like scrambler, he might not enjoy the back tees.

Andy's words ring true to me. If you're playing 36, why not play the blues first and adjust or not accordingly?

George

I understand what you are saying, but in practice, lower caps tend to hit the ball straighter than higher caps. I don't recall knowing any 15 capper who could consistently hit the ball straighter (with any real distance) than a 5 capper. There is a big disparity in skill level between the two. If I was with a 15 capper and they wanted to step back to play a course at 6700 yards rather than 6300 I would certainly believe they are kidding themselves AND be right nearly every time. To be honest, I think many sub 5 cappers are kidding themselves most of the time when they think they can take on a 6700 yard course. Inflated egos are a big reason why the game is so slow in the States. Its not surprising that I hear many Americans complaining about not being able to step back to medal tees on UK courses then I find out they can't break 75. I am all in favour of clubs offering less and shorter tee options and letting guys just get on with the game rather than beat their chests.

Ciao

« **Reply #20 on:** July 15, 2007, 04:28:49 PM »

Quote from: Wayne Morrison on July 14, 2007, 10:52:27 AM

"Tobacco Road and Black Mesa take the player on a Jungian journey into the stygian recesses of his psyche using golf as a metaphor. There is no escaping the dark and mysterious atmosphere they exude. (That’s “dark” in the new sense of the word meaning “brooding and mysterious,” not “dark” in the old sense of the word meaning “dimly lit”)."

Come on, what is this a writing assignment for Hyperbole 101 at the local community college?

Thanks wayne, youre a wonderful human being:)

« **Reply #21 on:** July 15, 2007, 04:38:57 PM »

Sean:

I agree with everything you said about the relative merits of different handicap players [in general terms -- everybody's different]. However, Black Mesa is at altitude, so the 6700 yards on the scorecard will play more like 6200 or 6300, not out of reason for a 15-handicapper if he doesn't get intimidated.

« **Reply #22 on:** July 16, 2007, 06:23:13 PM »

Quote from: Tom_Doak on July 15, 2007, 04:38:57 PM

Sean:

I agree with everything you said about the relative merits of different handicap players [in general terms -- everybody's different]. However, Black Mesa is at altitude, so the 6700 yards on the scorecard will play more like 6200 or 6300, not out of reason for a 15-handicapper if he doesn't get intimidated.

Easier said than done at BM...Spann is as visually arresting as Strantz..and people frequently don't play the right tees.

News:

Jay Flemma

Wyatt Halliday

Jay Flemma

Wyatt Halliday

Jay Flemma

Wyatt Halliday

Jay Flemma

Matt_Ward

Andy Troeger

Pat Brockwell

Pat Brockwell

George Pazin

Matt MacIver

Jay Flemma

Chris Moore

Jay Flemma

Brad Swanson

Steve Lang

wsmorrison

Sean_A

Jay Flemma

Tom_Doak

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