Mark,

Sebonack has been open for a year.  Flynn's version of Shinnecock Hills for more than 75 years.  There has/had been a great deal of green shrinkage at SHGC over the years, as at most courses of that era.  There is a fascinating green recovery program going on at SHGC; Tom Paul and I (and Craig Disher) are assisting the club with historical documentation of what was and what is different today.  To be fair, I would have you consider the Flynn greens as designed and originally built and not what they are today.  I would also advise that it is often the case with Flynn greens that they are not easy to discern in just a few visits.  The subtle interplays of slope are hard to read and take time to learn.  It is a far different style than found at Sebonack.  One isn't better than the other, but they are different and appeal to individuals in different ways.  

Flynn's green designs, especially when fully restored are extremely sophisticated in the way they tie in to the surrounds, have fall-offs (hidden and overt) and the way they are integrated with the bunkers.  The pin positions that are being restored have an impact on shots back to the tee.  As one example, consider the restoration of the left rear corner of the 1st green.  That green used to wrap around the left greenside bunker.  A pin position in the left rear corner is proximate to the rear fall-off and the bunker.  The tee shot needs to be played down the right side of the fairway thus bringing the fairway bunkers into play and making sure the right line and distance is played on your first shot of the day to the offset fairway.  Safe shots out to the left are penalized by an approach shot over the bunker with the rear fall-off in play.  The safe shot from the left is to play to the middle of the green and try and 2-putt for your par.

I hope you'll take a good look at the green pads and imagine the intended pin positions and how they affect play.  When all the greens have been restored (so far 6,12,13 and 17), the course can easily be a couple of shots harder for low handicap players and more so for bogey players as recovery shots around the greens are very demanding throughout the golf course especially with the many recovered pin positions along the margins of the greens.  

Sebonack is a very fine course with small and boldly contoured greens, especially given the wind.  I would counsel that you reconsider the sophistication of Flynn's greens.  They are subtle but very sophisticated though maybe not at first glance versus bold iternal contouring.  I am sure some will accuse me of being biased, I'd rather think of it as being informed  

Alex

I have not yet had the pleasure of playing Sebonack.  Could you please expand and explain what you mean by "fatal flaw of the golf course"?  That seems a very harsh term to use for a golf course and certainly for one with such a pedigree.

Would Pebble Beach and its tiny greens in a similarly WINDY environment be fatally flawed as well?

Are Sebonack's greens as small as Pebble Beach's?

Thanks for your reply.

Sorry, Mark.  I have only toured Sebonack one time for a couple of hours after construction was completed but before the whole course was grassed.  I was very fortunate to tour the course with Tom Doak, who introduced me to  Mike Pascucci.  So a comparison between the two courses would not be fair, as I am not nearly familiar enough with Sebonack.  However, I do know Shinnecock very well.  

Do you consider a lack of land movement on much of the front 9 at Shinnecock Hills an issue?

I don't feel that way and Mark has not indicated that he does.  I'm just curious as to how he feels.  Either way, my mind won't be changed; I am just interested in his perspective.

Wayne, Geoffrey,and Steve thanks for your replies.




Alex: some really like the uphill approach and green surface on Sebonack's #3, the very strategic 5th,and the bold uphill twisting 9th. how about you.....
Were you under the influence while out at bayberry or earlier today

by the way, whats your handicap... I'm a plus two

 Mark,

   I begged you to get help!