Brad Klein's Golfweek Review of Chamber's Bay

« **on:** June 25, 2007, 03:06:28 AM »

Thought it contained some pretty good information regarding this latest gem. I urge all of you to get to Tacoma before the green fees jump sky high. This place is special.

Even more interesting is his Golfweek rating, which I think hit it pretty much spot on. Unfortuantely, unless Brad posts those numbers here, you won't be able to see them, only if you view them in the print edition.

Brad's Golfweek Review

« **Reply #1 on:** June 25, 2007, 07:18:54 AM »

Tommy,

That article has some nice information about the development of the course and the travels of the local politicians. But where is the information about the course itself...

Also, it looks to me like the green fees are sky-high if what Brad puts in there is correct. Over $100 per round.... $:-\$

I doubt I will travel all the way to Tacoma to play an overhyped municipal course when I can play two or three rounds on a course close to home for the same price. And that doesn't even count the airfare.

« **Reply #2 on:** June 25, 2007, 07:21:59 AM »

Tommy, Chris,

the Golfweek story of June 16 linked to GCA is an overview of high-end municipal golf in the US focused on Chambers Bay but one that explores a larger trend. The specific review of Chambers Bay ran separately as a sidebar in the June 16 issue. I'll get it posted on Golfweek.com and hotlinked here later today.

« **Reply #3 on:** June 25, 2007, 08:10:59 AM »

A number of us on here have already seen Chambers Bay and all to the man have liked it or loved it. The Jones Company told me last summer they had a special project which they felt would receive good buzz in architectural circles. I will see it next week and cannot wait. I enjoyed Brad's article and the approach to a segment of the public golf market. I was driving a friend running for gov of Louisiana around Saturday afternoon. We were riding by a local Muni who has about a 200,000 budget. He knows I am a golfer in a big way. So to make conversation, he noted how good it looked. It was green, yes it rains here. He is not a golfer and it gave me a chance to discuss where our underfunded Muni courses are generatng million plus revenue streams at $10 to $20 a round with only $300,000 or so staying at the course and the rest going into the general budget. There is a great deal of room for public golf to grow and mature. I am glad Brad is bringing attention to this as well as great projects like Chambers Bay.

« **Reply #4 on:** June 25, 2007, 09:28:12 AM »

Quote from: Tommy Naccarato on June 25, 2007, 03:06:28 AM

Thought it contained some pretty good information regarding this latest gem. I urge all of you to get to Tacoma before the green fees jump sky high. This place is special.

Brad's Golfweek Review

Tommy must mean Pebble Beach fees, as they are already forcasting a high of $150 (Peak Weekend) and a low of $115 (Winter Weekday) for non-county residents. $:-\$

« **Reply #5 on:** June 25, 2007, 09:29:02 AM »

My conservative political leanings still cause me trouble when it comes to my home town project at Chambers Bay, however, the artistic results are stunning.

My wife and I were out for a walk on the Grandview trail Saturday afternoon and in the late afternoon sun the course absolutely pops out of the landscape. There were still groups on the seventh tee at 7 pm.

The locals are still choking a little on the $100 weekend green fee, visitors from outside the county will pay $150 on weekends. Believe me that this is quite a bit higher than anything previously attempted in this market.

Time will tell as to the financial success of the project but right now the politicians and builders are basking in the glory of their accomplishment.

« **Reply #6 on:** June 25, 2007, 09:41:32 AM »

http://www.golfweek.com/lifestyles/
Now posted on front page of Golfweek.com / Lifestyles page.

Coz, have you also been eating crow lately over Chambers Bay -- or just eating copies of the local newspapers carrying your letters to the editor with your well-justified concerns the last few years?

« **Reply #7 on:** June 25, 2007, 10:04:52 AM »

Wow.
Those are some strong statements by Brad.
Methinks I just decided what to beg for for later this year or early next year... how realistic is it to play this course in Winter? Will it drain well?

As for fees, what's sad is $150 weekend doesn't make me bat an eye - and not because I'm rich, far from it - that's just kinda normal price for CA CCFADs. And that is sad.

« **Reply #8 on:** June 25, 2007, 10:22:43 AM »

Andrew - I think you have the comparisons exactly right - that's what has me saying WOW. Brad doesn't tend to exaggerate. That number means exactly what he intends it to mean.

And that also means I need to get my butt up there and play it. Even if Brad's number is a bit high, hell that STILL means it's a very very great golf course.

So... can you answer my questions re playing in winter? Sadly that will be the only time I can make a trip up.

TH

« **Reply #9 on:** June 25, 2007, 10:31:29 AM »

Huck I have two tee times on the 7th of July. It would be great to see you and give you the opportunity to give Rono some good first hand feedback. How have you been? Cheers Tiger

« **Reply #10 on:** June 25, 2007, 10:33:29 AM »

JB, all is well. But golf travel is not part of my life, at least not in the short term. OH how I'd love to be up there 7/7... but that is not my reality.

I just can plan a winter trip... and I'm thinking this would be worth doing.. that is IF it drains like the Bandon courses. I can handle getting soaked, freezing, etc. I can't handle unplayable courses.

TH

« **Reply #11 on:** June 25, 2007, 10:33:32 AM »

Crow under glass.....Crow Brochette........crow l'orange......crow marsala.........penne pasta and crow.......

Thr RT Jones II folks, Strawn, Blasi, Charlton and Mr. Jones himself have created a course unlike anything else they have attempted, save Spanish Bay, and succeeded remarkably. Now if the Kemper folks can bring in the tourists, the PGA event, the US Open and 34,000 rounds a year @ $100 promised by the Pierce County Executive, John Ladenburg, I will be happily opening the "All Crow Restaurant" right there in Town Center of University Place.

For the sake of all concerned, the sewer rate payers of Pierce County, the downtrodden and depressed of Tacoma and environs, I hope all of my vocal concern will be proven wrong.

Is there any more of that Crow under Glass?

« **Reply #12 on:** June 25, 2007, 10:40:40 AM »

TH,

Weather November through mid January is prohibitive for golf travel. Rain begins to slacken in February and weather can be passable if still uncomfortable in March.

The course weathered some of the worst weather in decades last november and drained pretty well until the 12 inches in 24 hours we had. course is built on sand over glacial till and should drain very quickly. If Jay Blasi is watching I am sure he could give the perk rates. Tacoma is legitamately playable for travellers April 1 through October 15. My personal favorite is September 1 through October 1. Only drawback is the aeration season.

« **Reply #13 on:** June 25, 2007, 10:47:59 AM »

WHG: gotcha. OK, so I shall go to plan B.... different type of begging for late spring 2008 visit.

Thanks.

TH

« **Reply #14 on:** June 25, 2007, 10:50:17 AM »

Remember this:

If the green fee weren't over $100 it wouldn't have been built.

I'm paying $150 or whatever on July 16th and looking forward to it.

Good or bad, there aren't many outstanding golf courses accessible to the public for a small tariff.

Chambers Bay could have a green fee of $40. In order to do that they would
* have built it somewhere else
* not have employed a qualified architect
* have used the lowest bid for construction
* have a shorter course on a smaller plot
* sacrifice course conditions
* provide fewer amenities.

I probably left a few things out.

« **Reply #15 on:** June 25, 2007, 10:54:59 AM »

Quote from: John_Conley on June 25, 2007, 10:50:17 AM

Chambers Bay could have a green fee of $40. In order to do that they would
* have built it somewhere else
* not have employed a qualified architect
* have used the lowest bid for construction
* have a shorter course on a smaller plot
* sacrifice course conditions
* provide fewer amenities.

I probably left a few things out.

Doesn't Rustic Canyon sort of imply otherwise?

« **Reply #16 on:** June 25, 2007, 10:59:31 AM »

As I reported on an earlier thread, the most apropos comparison I have is Old Works. Both courses were reclamations. Both courses are for the most part treeless. Both courses are set in spectacular scenic areas. Both courses have extensive waste areas. I don't know the numbers, but the spectacular cost of Old Works may just blow away the cost of Chambers Bay.

IMHO for pure golfing architecture and fun Chambers Bay blows Old Works away.

« **Reply #17 on:** June 25, 2007, 11:02:39 AM »

Cos, My goodness you must have written a few letters to the editor. You have a wonderful crow menu already to go. I will confess I am one who would look hard at the price tag of that project as well. I was and am a vocal critic of the TPC course in NOLA at 24 Million. However the location and product are not up to speed there. I just spoke to the Jones guys and off the top of their heads they feel there are 2.3 million people within a 30 minutes drive of Chambers Bay. I do not know or even pretend to know the public golf options within the area which would be competition. However that sounds like a good base for an upscale daily fee. I am being told there are 2000 people a day using the walking trail through the course and up to 5000 on weekends. That tells me the local comunity is embracing the greater park and course and it is becoming a valued part of the community.

« **Reply #18 on:** June 25, 2007, 11:03:16 AM »

George - great question, I was wondering the same thing. I just do believe that at least part of the reason costs are higher at CB is that as a reclamation project, costs of building were much higher than those at Rustic. But still the general principle holds... we surely do need more Rustics and less CB's....

« **Reply #19 on:** June 25, 2007, 11:12:45 AM »

I believe Chambers Bay will be a success, because the course is strong enough to get people to come to Tacoma who otherwise wouldn't. I contrast that with the Bolingbrook Golf Club mentioned in the article...I don't really see people flying to Chicago just to play that one. And forcing non-residents to overpay for a good, but not great golf course ($100 when it's worth about half that, plus you have to take a cart when the course is very flat) is not really a strategy for long-term success.

« **Reply #20 on:** June 25, 2007, 11:14:24 AM »

$100-$150... Heck that is downright cheap isn't it?

?

« **Reply #21 on:** June 25, 2007, 11:32:27 AM »

Quote from: Greg Tallman on June 25, 2007, 11:14:24 AM

$100-$150... Heck that is downright cheap isn't it??

Not in a market where they are not filling $40 courses. Amongst those $40 courses are Spanaway Lake that Cos has said good things about, and The Home Course that Cos has also said good things about. To a certain extent they may have to depend on people coming from all over the Seattle-Tacoma area.

« **Reply #22 on:** June 25, 2007, 11:52:27 AM »

I"m sorry, not to pick on Jim Nugent, but all this rating and numerology as he has explained it, is why I have such a gut reaction against rating. It is as if we must have this perfect logical order of what value and where each course fits in... By his analysis that 9 means it is in the top 6-15 and and 8 in the top 40 etc., then I think there must be 25 courses in the top 5 and 100 courses in the top 40, etc. There is just so much hair splitting and I think that the score misleads many folks into thinking a truly great course isn't all that because it is only a 7 or 8.

All I know is Chambers Bay is an exciting course having walked - not played it yet. I hope that the pressure is on by the locals to keep that price where it is, and for a long time. Thus, after a number of years, as costs are recovered, then the price will be cheaper, in relative terms due to inflation.

34Krounds at an average of $100 seems to me to be very doable. I'd like to see the course recognised early as a top candidate for a major (which I have sero doubt it would handle beautifully) and get some grant money right up front from the USGA or PGA, to retire construction-development costs. That should be done by the golf organizations as a tribute to the municipal spirit that had gone forward to get behind this project in the first place. They have created something very special, and should be rewarded at least in the same way they did for Torrey Pines being granted upgrade money, and Bethpage being granted upgrade money. In this case, not so much up-grade as re-inforcement of the great leap Tacoma made that has bettered golf in that area with such a great new venue.

Maybe that would encourage even more muni's to go forward with something of great recreational use to their communities, besides stadia.

« **Reply #23 on:** June 25, 2007, 12:19:22 PM »

Dick- One must allow for the rater who loves trees.

Also, in jest, I wonder if Dr. Brad would've rated it higher had they allowed you to play. Didn't they know who you are? The rainmaker for sand based publics.

« **Reply #24 on:** June 25, 2007, 01:01:43 PM »

For the record, Nyk Pike couldn't have been a nicer more gracious tour guide. It wasn't open that day, and I had my wife in tow, and she patiently sat in the car for a couple hours while we did our walk about...

As to the rainmaker comment... rainman without the innate numerology facility, maybe.

The only "sand based or sandyish public courses" I've ever flogged, early on prior to opening was Tobacco Road and Rustic Canyon. Wild Horse was already open a year when I first came to that town to spread the word. Was I wrong?

News:

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Chris_Clouser

Brad Klein

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Jeff Doerr

W.H. Cosgrove

Brad Klein

Tom Huckaby

Tom Huckaby

Tiger_Bernhardt

Tom Huckaby

W.H. Cosgrove

W.H. Cosgrove

Tom Huckaby

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George Pazin

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RJ_Daley