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Robert Mercer Deruntz

  • Karma: +0/-0
Long Island's Colt and Allison
« on: June 13, 2007, 10:06:23 PM »
This club is best known for it's US Open on a Tilly layout.  It probably has the best set of 3's west of exit 70 on the LIE, since the Black's 14th was recently ruined.  Supposedly, the green's committee has been considering doing some major course work.  This course is also known for it's greens being soft and very, very fast with serious amounts of slope and contour.  There has been some tree clearance, but the course could easily lose 1000 trees.  











Robert Mercer Deruntz

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Long Island's Colt and Allison
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2007, 10:12:50 PM »








Robert Mercer Deruntz

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Long Island's Colt and Allison
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2007, 10:15:41 PM »






Robert Mercer Deruntz

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Long Island's Colt and Allison
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2007, 10:19:04 PM »






HamiltonBHearst

Re:Long Island's Colt and Allison
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2007, 11:34:47 PM »


The pictures seem to indicate the club could lose closer to 5000-10000 trees.  The 1000 number is probably the number of bushes that could be removed.  

Funny that Mr. Deruntz does not like #14 at Bethpage, Phil Young seems to love it.

Tony_Muldoon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Long Island's Colt and Allison
« Reply #5 on: June 14, 2007, 12:54:49 AM »
Excellent pictures, thanks. got to run
« Last Edit: June 14, 2007, 12:55:11 AM by Tony Muldoon »
Let's make GCA grate again!

Jason Blasberg

Re:Long Island's Colt and Allison
« Reply #6 on: June 14, 2007, 08:03:42 AM »
Yet more excellent photos Robert.

Personally, FM doesn't do it for me and is, IMO, the most overrated course is Nassau County.    

Those flash faced bunkers just look so out of place to me and for a property with great movement the course is rather uninspiring.  

Phil_the_Author

Re:Long Island's Colt and Allison
« Reply #7 on: June 14, 2007, 08:45:07 AM »
Hamilton, you are correct, I do like the reworked 14th. What most don't understand who take exception to it is that the the green as it was had very few possible hole locations. The green was beginning to wear badly and something needed to be done.

In addition, the hole was also far less challenging than what they felt it would be for the 2002 Open. Something needed to be done to make it a bit more challenging for the 2009 Open.

For many years it has been suggested that a new tee box be built back on the other side of the maintenance road that runs at the base of the hill where the tee box is. When looking at the reality of this and what it would take to accomplish, it becomes quickly apparent that it was the wrong direction to go in.

First of all, the new tee would have created a par three that would have been close to 220 yards in length. The green as it was was really a bit too small for this length and so it would need enlarging.

Secondly, and this is was the largest drawback, they would have had to move a literal mountain of soil to create a hill that would hold the new tee box. This was tremendously cost prohibitive for the State to consider doing (Albany beancounters) and, quite fairly, the USGA has put all the money they intend to into Bethpage.

This leaves the only solution as enlarging the green surface, something that was not only cost-effective, but unknown to most at the time, would actually bring the green back mcuh closer to its original size and playing shape.

When it was built the original putting surface ran all the way up to the top of the hill that serves as the back side of the green. What very few knew was that the putting surface originally was behind and in back of the large right-side bunker. The bushes and trees over there have grown in over the years since and right of the bunker was actually in play.

By extending the green back and to the right, the green has been recovered and some wonderfully challenging hole locations have been re-discovered. I guarantee that there will be 2 holes in that area in 2009 and they will be difficult to make birdies on them. From the back tee these holes will be approximately 185 yards in length.

What has been controversial for some has been the extension of the front left portion of the green making a little tongue of grass. This may end up being the toughest of all hole locations on the green as it forces the player to gamble and go for it to be close or play safe and be above the hole. From the front of the tee, this hole measures less than 140 yards.

This means that the hole has a tremendous variety of playing and set-up options with nearly 50 yards of length to work with.

Some have also taken umbrage with the new narrow bunker left of the green. This is necessary and actually makes the new hole more fair for players of all skill levels. Consider how hard  a pitch shot someone is faced with from deep rough just a few yards left of the green. At least a shot from the bunker allows for a chance of recovery.

I see the hole now having many more options, a better ability to maintain it and a green that is much closer to its original design... That is why I like the changes. And for discussion purposes I must disclose that I was asked my input on it beforehand and was there during the on-course discussions with Rees, Mike Davis, Craig Currier, Dave Catalano & a few others.


Doug Braunsdorf

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Long Island's Colt and Allison
« Reply #8 on: June 14, 2007, 08:59:59 AM »
I pass this course all the time on the LIE.  How true is this to Colt/Alison's original design?  
Phil, have you ever seen pictures, a routing, anything from the original?   ;)
"Never approach a bull from the front, a horse from the rear, or a fool from any direction."

Ted Kramer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Long Island's Colt and Allison
« Reply #9 on: June 14, 2007, 09:00:11 AM »
Hate to admit my ignorance, but what course is this?

-Ted

Will E

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Long Island's Colt and Allison
« Reply #10 on: June 14, 2007, 09:17:17 AM »
Bob,
Nice pictures.

Instead of focusing on the course I'm wondering about the bunker style.
These bunkers have a Flynn look to them; though after seeing the early pictures of Indian Creek I wonder if they look like some of the Flynn redos I've seen.
Does anyone have an idea of the type of bunkering work that C&A built here?

Ted Kramer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Long Island's Colt and Allison
« Reply #11 on: June 14, 2007, 10:57:27 AM »
Ted

Check the MGA website for courses on LI that have the initials MB, I think it's there, if not IM me.  For some reason everyone so far is choosing not to mention the name.

I was looking for "FM" based on Jason's post . . .

-Ted

Robert Emmons

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Long Island's Colt and Allison
« Reply #12 on: June 14, 2007, 10:58:59 AM »
I thought it was Fresh Meadow?

SPDB

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Long Island's Colt and Allison
« Reply #13 on: June 14, 2007, 11:13:53 AM »
It is Fresh Meadow, but I think the title should be Long Island's Alison (not sure Colt had anything to do with it apart from being a partner of Alison).

Phil_the_Author

Re:Long Island's Colt and Allison
« Reply #14 on: June 14, 2007, 11:36:51 AM »
Doug,

I have a bunch of photos from the original and a copy of the routing somewhere. You can see a few photos on the Tilly website. There is even a photograph of Gene Sarazen putting during the 1932 Open there reprinted in "Tillinghast: Creator of Golf Courses."
« Last Edit: June 14, 2007, 11:42:39 AM by Philip Young »

Jeff Evagues

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Long Island's Colt and Allison
« Reply #15 on: June 14, 2007, 01:04:02 PM »
I think Fresh Meadow is an excellent course.I like it better than its next door neighbor. I believe Engineers is the most overrated course in Nassau County.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2007, 01:09:09 PM by Jeff Evagues »
Be the ball

Jason Blasberg

Re:Long Island's Colt and Allison
« Reply #16 on: June 14, 2007, 03:03:55 PM »
I think Fresh Meadow is an excellent course.I like it better than its next door neighbor. I believe Engineers is the most overrated course in Nassau County.

Ahh, Jeff it sounds like we'll get along swimmingly . . . :)

Robert Emmons

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Long Island's Colt and Allison
« Reply #17 on: June 14, 2007, 03:07:29 PM »
JKB...my thoughts exactly

Geoffrey Childs

Re:Long Island's Colt and Allison
« Reply #18 on: June 14, 2007, 04:13:28 PM »
I think Fresh Meadow is an excellent course.I like it better than its next door neighbor. I believe Engineers is the most overrated course in Nassau County.

Jeff

I love playing Engineers.  It's a great challenge with great holes on a wonderful property. I have not played Fresh Meadow.  

Care to expand on your over rated comment with some details on holes, features and playability that you don't care for?

JMorgan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Long Island's Colt and Allison
« Reply #19 on: June 14, 2007, 08:44:09 PM »
Do those of you who have played Fresh Meadows agree with Robert that the course has the best par 3's on Long Island west of LIE Exit 70?

Jeff Evagues

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Long Island's Colt and Allison
« Reply #20 on: June 15, 2007, 07:31:18 AM »
I've lived on the island for 20 years but grew up in Pittsburgh so I enjoy the "north shore" courses more than the "south shore" ones (excepting east of the canal of course). I don't view the layouts with a microscope looking to see whether a bunker should be placed or not. I just felt that Engineers (and North Hills for that matter) don't make the best use of the hills as Fresh Meadow and Piping Rock, to name another.
Be the ball

Jason Blasberg

Re:Long Island's Colt and Allison
« Reply #21 on: June 15, 2007, 08:00:20 AM »
I just felt that Engineers (and North Hills for that matter) don't make the best use of the hills as Fresh Meadow and Piping Rock, to name another.

Piping Rock doesn't even have hills compared to Engieers as the front nine plays around the polo field.

Jeff, re-read Ran's review.  Strong's use of the ridgelines is its routing genious!

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