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Phil Benedict

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Can Trees Make a Course Easier?
« on: June 11, 2007, 10:05:17 AM »
Taking down the trees obviously removes thousands of hazards from Oakmont.  But it also increases exposure to wind and allows the rough to grow thick and lush.  I'm in the woods a lot so I find trees challenging, but that may not be so for high level players.

David Stamm

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Re:Can Trees Make a Course Easier?
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2007, 10:19:55 AM »
Phil, trees can also make picking out a target easier. I know for me when I play a course I have played quite a bit, I have specific trees I aim for. Without them, it would make it a little more difficult to get a line for my shot. I would eventually use another target instead, but it could be a little more challenging using a stake or hill way in the distance. I think that maye another reason why golfers that visit Ireland and the UK have a challenging time adjusting.
"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

Doug Siebert

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Can Trees Make a Course Easier?
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2007, 12:56:53 AM »
Taking down the trees removes the wind at ground level, but once your ball is above the trees it still gets hit by the wind.  I think any benefit from not having as much wind on your ball while it is below tree level would be easily outweighed by having the winds swirl around and be harder to predict.  I prefer stronger winds of a known direction than having light winds of one direction until my ball rises above the treeline where it faces a stronger wind of another direction.  It is one more mental difficulty to overcome to allow for a wind from right to left that you know is above the trees when you feel a wind directly in your face while addressing the ball, the less cognitive dissonance I have during a shot the better my chances of success!

I don't know if I buy the argument for trees making targets easier to pick out.  I aim at all kinds of stuff: flagsticks, bunkers, trees, hills, houses, barns, clouds, steeples, antennas, carts, signs, and so on.  Mostly the flag or some distance offset from the flag on approaches, unless of course I've screwed myself by driving the ball into the trees!

I suppose a blind shot over a hilltop that's totally featureless would be easier if there was a tree or two behind it to give me something to aim at, but that is pretty rare anywhere in the world in the my experience.  There's always something to shoot at (and I've learned from experience, don't trust the stones and stakes in the UK to indicate the correct line if your eye or the Strokesaver tells you otherwise, they may have set them down a century ago when 200 yards was a big drive!)  Maybe it doesn't bother me since I do the Nicklaus thing and line up from behind at my target and pick a target a few feet ahead of my ball so the fact the target may be blind or indistinct when I take my stance is mostly irrelevant.
My hovercraft is full of eels.

Jim Nugent

Re:Can Trees Make a Course Easier?
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2007, 01:46:36 AM »
A related question: would taking down the recent (say last 20 years worth of) trees at ANGC make the course harder, or easier?  

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Can Trees Make a Course Easier?
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2007, 02:02:41 AM »
Jim,

it wouldn't be any easier than it was before the trees were planted. It is the equipment that is making the game easier, this coupled with the improvement of the average tour pro's game. It would make more sense for the ball to be shortened for the pro tour than what is happening to courses like ANGC. ANGA have certainly toughened the course for this year but at some point the players will figure out how to play it again and they will be back to square one. Also by all the alterations they have removed most of the strategy which is a big negative. IMHO ANGC is becoming less of a special place and more like a standard tour stop every year. :'(

TEPaul

Re:Can Trees Make a Course Easier?
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2007, 07:28:08 AM »
DougS:

You make a point about unpredicable winds on treed sites that's rarely made.

I always found that wind on untreed and unprotected golf courses was what I called "flat"---in other words the wind was about as strong three feet off the ground as it was 30 or 100 feet in the air. That kind of wind offers its own unique challenge because it's not hard to figure out which way it will take a golf ball, it's just hard to predict how much.

On the other hand, courses like Pine Valley in the wind produces a much more complex wind challenge in that the wind can be clearly one way at the top of the trees but in the tree corridors it can have that "city street effect" where it gets just as strong in another direction down the tree corridor or starts swirling all over the place and it's hard to know not just how much it will take a ball but in which direction too.

I used to fish on the flats for bonefish way out in the middle of nowhere in the Bahamas and every now and again these weird little wind or water spouts would be visible like a dog chasing its tail.

I have no idea what makes for some of the dynamics of wind. It's a weird natural phenomenon but its definitely that odd X ingredient to some golf courses. My personal favorite with real wind variety is Maidstone. It seems open but there must be enough verticality around it with things like trees off the site that creates some kind of wind blocking that makes figuring out the direction and intensity of the wind really hard now and then when you least expect it.

This kind of thing also brings up an interesting but apparently long forgotten fact of original golf. Essentially it's the real reason the "ground game" was of a premium in the distant old days. The extreme wind combined with the fact that the featherie ball was so light made keeping the ball either on the ground or very close to to the ground a virtual necessity.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2007, 07:32:29 AM by TEPaul »

Jim Nugent

Re:Can Trees Make a Course Easier?
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2007, 01:48:11 PM »
How did taking down so many trees at Olympic affect the course?  Is it "easier" or "harder" after the tree removal?  

And what do you all think about Oakmont?  Is the course harder now, with the trees gone?  

Phil Benedict

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Can Trees Make a Course Easier?
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2007, 02:00:44 PM »
How did taking down so many trees at Olympic affect the course?  Is it "easier" or "harder" after the tree removal?  

And what do you all think about Oakmont?  Is the course harder now, with the trees gone?  

If you believe the pre-Open talk, the course is going to play harder than past majors at Oakmont.  I get the feeling the rough is especially difficult, even more so than in the typical US Open.  It's possible the removal of trees may have improved agronomy allowing for healthier rough.

Of course it could be all talk and the winner will shoot around par, just like at most US Opens.

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