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Daryn_Soldan

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Mackenzie - Public Access?
« on: June 01, 2007, 09:14:27 PM »
I'm interested in determining which Mackenzie designed courses are currently accessible for public play.  Feedback would be much appreciated.  Thanks.

-Daryn
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Bill Gayne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Mackenzie - Public Access?
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2007, 09:26:02 PM »
Pasatiempo and Lahinch are the two that come to my mind.
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Joel_Stewart

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Re:Mackenzie - Public Access?
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2007, 09:47:18 PM »
Sharp Park in Pacifica, CA  (San Francisco)

Haggin Oaks in Sacramento, CA

Northwoods in Northern California, is a 9 holer set in the redwoods.
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Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re:Mackenzie - Public Access?
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2007, 09:49:15 PM »
Daryn:

Nearly all of his courses in the UK, Ireland, Australia, and New Zealand are private clubs but allow liberal visitor access.  Hazlehead muni in Aberdeen is one of the few truly "public" courses in his portfolio.
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Brian_Ewen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Mackenzie - Public Access?
« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2007, 03:30:18 AM »
Tom
Have you gotten a look at Hazlehead yet ? .
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TEPaul

Re:Mackenzie - Public Access?
« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2007, 07:48:41 AM »
"Nearly all of his courses in the UK, Ireland, Australia, and New Zealand are private clubs but allow liberal visitor access."

Yes, they do and it's just hilarious that the likes of Goodale and Turner try to maintain this fairy-tale notion that they all do that out of some altrustic and democratic spirit. They do it simply because they're after the Almighty Yankee Dollah and if they didn't do that they'd all have to pay more to play their own golf courses.  ;)
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Pete Lavallee

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Re:Mackenzie - Public Access?
« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2007, 12:22:20 PM »
Quote from: TEPaul on June 02, 2007, 07:48:41 AM
"Nearly all of his courses in the UK, Ireland, Australia, and New Zealand are private clubs but allow liberal visitor access."

Yes, they do and it's just hilarious that the likes of Goodale and Turner try to maintain this fairy-tale notion that they all do that out of some altrustic and democratic spirit. They do it simply because they're after the Almighty Yankee Dollah and if they didn't do that they'd all have to pay more to play their own golf courses.  ;)

Although I'm sure they greatly enjoy spending our dollars, I don't think that is the sole answer. The real reason is that no members are playing past 10:00 am anyway, so why not let a few visitors enjoy the links? If the tee sheet was full, I doubt this policy would be in place. It really boils down to supply and demand; they just have more courses there than the local golfers can support on their own.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2007, 12:23:03 PM by Pete Lavallee »
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Rich Goodale

Re:Mackenzie - Public Access?
« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2007, 01:00:03 PM »
Sean and Pete

You fail to understand that at Tom Paul's club, unaccompanied visitors are allowed any time between 3:15 and 3:30 AM.  The locker room attendant, Old Blind Jimmy must lead them to the 1st tee.

Outside of those lucky few, nobody plays the course, except for Tom Paul and his guests.  It is not for nothing that he has won the Club Championship for the last 43 years in a row.  Of course, they do have a lower class of members, but they are only allowed to play the driving range.  It is quite a sight teeing off on the first and seeing a blank canvas in front of you whilst 40-50 are beating balls into an NLE Ross hole to your left.  I am told that if any of the grandchildren of these Range Members survive them, they might be considered for full membership sometime in the future.....
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Brian Phillips

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Mackenzie - Public Access?
« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2007, 04:53:34 PM »
Tom Paul,

Just come back about 5 hours ago from England playing Swinley Forest, The Berkshire courses and St. Georges Hill.  Played with 3 others as a 4 ball on each course and we received courtesy at all of the courses.

Spoke to a number of the members of the clubs and none gave the impression that any of the clubs needed that very weak miserable dollar to keep them alive.  They will take it of course but they did not need it...
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Bunkers, if they be good bunkers, and bunkers of strong character, refuse to be disregarded, and insist on asserting themselves; they do not mind being avoided, but they decline to be ignored - John Low Concerning Golf

Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Mackenzie - Public Access?
« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2007, 06:28:29 PM »
Brian,
what did we pay at Pitreavie? Twenty Quid?

Now, that's what I call Public... ;D ;D ;D

Hope you had a blast back at Swinley. Getting back over here for 'The Wedding'???

FBD.
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Brian_Ewen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Mackenzie - Public Access?
« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2007, 06:49:54 PM »
I have asked this before , but is Hazlehead the cheapest McKenzie in the world at £13 a round ?
« Last Edit: June 03, 2007, 03:51:16 AM by Brian_Ewen »
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David_Elvins

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Mackenzie - Public Access?
« Reply #11 on: June 02, 2007, 06:53:33 PM »
Quote from: TEPaul on June 02, 2007, 07:48:41 AM
"Nearly all of his courses in the UK, Ireland, Australia, and New Zealand are private clubs but allow liberal visitor access."

Yes, they do and it's just hilarious that the likes of Goodale and Turner try to maintain this fairy-tale notion that they all do that out of some altrustic and democratic spirit. They do it simply because they're after the Almighty Yankee Dollah and if they didn't do that they'd all have to pay more to play their own golf courses.  ;)

I assume you are joking but just in case you are not I should point out that all of Mackenzie's Australian courses are, and always have been, available to play by Overseas and Australian interstate residents.  The majority of these visitors come from places other than the US (although I am sure they would be happy to have you visit.)
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Paul Payne

Re:Mackenzie - Public Access?
« Reply #12 on: June 02, 2007, 09:52:54 PM »
Palmetto in Aiken SC is private but not all that hard to get on. In fact if you stay at the Willcox Inn, an OUTSTANDING small hotel just down the street, they can always secure a tee time for you. It is a teriffic course.
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TEPaul

Re:Mackenzie - Public Access?
« Reply #13 on: June 02, 2007, 09:56:52 PM »
"Spoke to a number of the members of the clubs and none gave the impression that any of the clubs needed that very weak miserable dollar to keep them alive.  They will take it of course but they did not need it... "

Brian:

Suggest raising their dues and then ask them again.  ;)

David Elvins:

Do you really need to ask? Have I ever NOT been joking?
« Last Edit: June 02, 2007, 09:58:14 PM by TEPaul »
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Brian Phillips

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Mackenzie - Public Access?
« Reply #14 on: June 03, 2007, 01:47:54 PM »
Quote from: Martin Glynn Bonnar on June 02, 2007, 06:28:29 PM
Brian,
what did we pay at Pitreavie? Twenty Quid?

Now, that's what I call Public... ;D ;D ;D

Hope you had a blast back at Swinley. Getting back over here for 'The Wedding'???

FBD.
FBD,

Arrive on the Thursday at 5pm in Glasgow.  Staying until Tuesday morning.  

Is it worth me bringing my sticks?

Brian
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Bunkers, if they be good bunkers, and bunkers of strong character, refuse to be disregarded, and insist on asserting themselves; they do not mind being avoided, but they decline to be ignored - John Low Concerning Golf

Daryn_Soldan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Mackenzie - Public Access?
« Reply #15 on: June 03, 2007, 10:28:25 PM »
OK, after wading through the responses I see Haggin Oaks, Sharp Park, Pasatiempo, and University of Michigan within the United States.  I haven't been able to come up with much else myself.  Is it really the case that there are fewer than five Mackenzie courses in this country that are accessible on a regular basis to the general public?
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Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Mackenzie - Public Access?
« Reply #16 on: June 03, 2007, 10:30:37 PM »
The original 9 at Delta View in Pittsburg CA have been attributed to Dr. MacK.  The greens are very undulating and can be tough targets to hit.  The entire course has trouble all along the right side, so its a bit of a slicers nightmare.  Worth a play if you are in the area.
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Mark_Rowlinson

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Re:Mackenzie - Public Access?
« Reply #17 on: June 04, 2007, 10:36:56 AM »
Blackpool Park is a MacKenzie public course in Blackpool - I don't know how intact MacKenzie's work there is.  Tom Doak also credits MacKenzie with the 9-hole public course at Roundhay Park, just down the road from Alwoodley.
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Andrew Mitchell

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Mackenzie - Public Access?
« Reply #18 on: June 04, 2007, 12:57:10 PM »
Quote from: Mark_Rowlinson on June 04, 2007, 10:36:56 AM
Blackpool Park is a MacKenzie public course in Blackpool - I don't know how intact MacKenzie's work there is.  Tom Doak also credits MacKenzie with the 9-hole public course at Roundhay Park, just down the road from Alwoodley.

Mark
I never knew that Roundhay Park had any claims to MacKenzie but at £7.75 per round (roughly $15) it must have a claim to the cheapest MacKenzie attributed round in the world!

When Bingley St Ives was a municipal course I played several rounds there for next to nothing, not knowing that it had links to MacKenzie.
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Tim Leahy

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Re:Mackenzie - Public Access?
« Reply #19 on: June 04, 2007, 03:06:55 PM »
Quote from: Joel_Stewart on June 01, 2007, 09:47:18 PM
Haggin Oaks in Sacramento, CA

As a Sacto resident, I can advise you to NOT go out of your way to play Haggin, big disappointment and is Mac in name only. Highlight of the course is the original plans on the wall in the snackbar, which were apparently ignored in the redesign.
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Tom Huckaby

Re:Mackenzie - Public Access?
« Reply #20 on: June 04, 2007, 03:25:07 PM »
Tim's sage counsel could also be given about Sharp Park, which has about as much Mackenzie in it as does my back yard.  Yes it was originally a Mackenzie design (as was Hagging Oaks) but neither are particularly worth seeking out.

Joel knows this, I'm sure.  But it bears repeating in case someone IS going to seek these out hoping to see Mackenzie's work.
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Joel_Stewart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Mackenzie - Public Access?
« Reply #21 on: June 04, 2007, 10:38:44 PM »
I believe 3 holes are still original at Sharp and something like 7 holes at Haggin Oaks.   Ron Whitten wrote a piece a few years ago on the remodel of Haggin Oak which he thought was just OK.  

http://www.golfdigest.com/courses/critic/index.ssf?/courses/critic/hagginoaks.html
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Patrick Kiser

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Mackenzie - Public Access?
« Reply #22 on: June 05, 2007, 12:38:43 AM »
Ya, but unfortunately none of these are really MacKenzie these days.

So not really fair to even call these MacKenzie in nature any longer.

Pasatiempo is probably the best known with public access.  At least state side.  TD just recently finished restoring it I believe.  Now might be a good time to experience how the restoration effort went.

 

Quote from: Joel_Stewart on June 01, 2007, 09:47:18 PM
Sharp Park in Pacifica, CA  (San Francisco)

Haggin Oaks in Sacramento, CA

Northwoods in Northern California, is a 9 holer set in the redwoods.
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Ally Mcintosh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Mackenzie - Public Access?
« Reply #23 on: June 05, 2007, 07:02:19 AM »
brian ewen,

i played almost all my junior golf for hazlehead... have you heard the latest on the development plans that have been talked about?... an update would be great...

what's you favourite thing about the hazlehead no.1 course?... some cracking par-3's, isn't there?... the 17th is a lovely long par-4 too...
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Mark_Rowlinson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Mackenzie - Public Access?
« Reply #24 on: June 05, 2007, 09:56:56 AM »
Andrew, I think Bingley St Ives is by Alistair's brother, Charles.  Tom Doak certainly includes it in his list of wrongly attributed courses.  Fulford is another that is often attributed to the wrong MacKenzie.
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