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Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Architectural necrophilia
« on: May 11, 2007, 04:02:01 PM »
The 'Dead Guys' thread set me to thinking about the 'life' in and of a golf course.

Do Courses have lifespans? Is that why they ultimately 'have' to be renovated? Should we allow them to die when they are 'spent' (or at least slide gracefully into old age) with nary a tear in our eye? Which of them are suitable for ER treatment? When does the doctor pronounce them dead (or at least no longer capable of sustaining life/golf...)?

The other/darker side to this thread might be: Is it WRONG to worship stuff that may be essentially 'dead' to the rest of the golfing world...?

Maybe I just need to get out more often.

FBD.
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Bob_Huntley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Architectural necrophilia
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2007, 04:25:25 PM »
Martin,

Have you been reading too much Krafft-Ebbing?

Architectural necrophilia

"obsession with and usually erotic interest in or stimulation by corpses."

I must say some courses do excite me, but nor erotically.

Bob

Peter Pallotta

Re:Architectural necrophilia
« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2007, 04:25:51 PM »
Martin
I don't know if this is an answer to your question (or to ANY question for that matter), but I think that "as in life, so in golf"...and so in golf course architecture.  

That is, what has lasting value for us are those things -- and only those things -- that we ourselves invest with meaning and value.    

I think we can legitimately discuss which courses we deem, collectively, to be worthy of that investment; but I don't think that the process of "worship" itself can be questioned.

That's what we do: give the people and places and events in our lives meaning and value. If we don't do it ourselves, no one else will...especially those who think a thing "dead".  

Peter

Doug Ralston

Re:Architectural necrophilia
« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2007, 04:49:30 PM »
Resurrection!

The recent crowd of gca have revived the linky, TOC style. It is now quite trendy. It is also destined to be short-lived.

With courses moving into parklands, deserts, mountains etc, links-style courses will soon take their place as one of the many styles of golf available, and, I suspect, not the most popular or most demanded.

A site like this one helps those of us who get to see few of the old classics to appreciate their offerings. For that we are thankful.

Golf courses MUST have the entire rich variety of the life of modern 'choice' society. [Ever read Alivin Toffler's 'Future Shock', about overchoice?]

Doug

Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Architectural necrophilia
« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2007, 04:54:06 PM »
"stimulation by corpses."

Bob,
you, rather succinctly, have hit the nail squarely upon its very metallic cranium!

Stimulation by corpses is exactly what I was getting at. What seems to happen is that a course is pronounced dead (i.e. too short!), the cadaver is stolen by the Burke and Hare of the golf world - (the USGA usually) and Dr. Frankenstein (insert name of current favoured architect here) re-animates these poor unfortunates so they walk undead amongst those 'live' courses who still possess vitality, character and, indeed, 'LIFE'!

It is ALIVE!!!!!!!

FBD.
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Bob_Huntley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Architectural necrophilia
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2007, 05:05:05 PM »
Martin,

Okay. you are not as kinky as I once thought. ;D

Bob

Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Architectural necrophilia
« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2007, 05:23:38 PM »
Martin,

Okay. you are not as kinky as I once thought. ;D

Bob

Coming from a Carmel Valley boy, I think I should be flattered!! ;)

Mark, Doug, Peter,
I am amazed at how you all have picked up on the vibe of this thread. Great comments, all.
I think you see where I'm coming from here. Would you agree that there might be some logic in my hypothesis? Or is it merely friday night Cabernet-fuelled gibberish? ;)

FBD.
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Doug Ralston

Re:Architectural necrophilia
« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2007, 05:27:51 PM »
I dunno Martin. Pass me some of the Cabernet. Let me see if I feel it too!

Doug

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Architectural necrophilia
« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2007, 08:57:24 PM »
Marty, are you hanging around those dreadful dreary cemeteries late at night again?  

I think many things cause the death throes of an old golf course including cramped space and not enough room to stay up with the modern expectations of B&I distance enhancements.  But also, market factors can be a killer.  Courses of not much esteem that sit in the way of "progress".  Not all the old stuff was a design masterpiece.  Some just have to go in order that the new road, housing tract, school, etc are inevitably competing in the same space.  

I think in the future, the death of many a course will come from petered out resources, i.e., water.  Then, even well regarded courses of good general design may have to go by the wayside.

That other rather unpleasantness (you know the stuff about the enjoyment or excitement over the the decayed or dying remanants of an old course, and debate on what to do with the old girl play with her or give her a facelift)... well that is why they have places for that scary lot to go, like GCA.com, to get their jollies off.  :o
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

cary lichtenstein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Architectural necrophilia
« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2007, 05:14:54 AM »
Martin:

Maybe you selected the wrong career, there is an old Mortuary for sale here in West Palm Beach. Weather is especailly nice and tons to deaths from the h's, heat, humidity and hurricanes. ;D ;D

Cary
Live Jupiter, Fl, was  4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 4 back surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms. Last course I played was Augusta

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Architectural necrophilia
« Reply #10 on: May 12, 2007, 12:58:05 PM »
Placing Man's limitations on GC's is a mistake.

If they are natural breathing entities onto themselves, isn't a good fire the life saving mechanism needed? Ala Yellowstone?

From East Moreland to Oakmont and Shinney, opening up the landscape is the healthy surgery needed to resurect.

Calling TOC a style is also a mistake. It's a principle that will and has endured. Temporary mowlines could kill her, but she would only be mostly dead. Not completely.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2007, 03:50:36 PM by Adam Clayman »
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +1/-1
Re:Architectural necrophilia
« Reply #11 on: May 12, 2007, 02:47:52 PM »
Martin:

The idea that old golf courses "have to" be changed at some point is ridiculous to me.  On my last trip to Scotland I played Old Musselburgh, and it was still fun for golfers of various abilities, same as it was 200 years ago and without significant change.  North Berwick and St. Andrews have been lengthened considerably in the same time period, but my guess is that they would still work well even in their shorter incarnations.

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Architectural necrophilia
« Reply #12 on: May 12, 2007, 09:49:13 PM »
Adam, if you are speaking of Chandler's Eastmoreland in Portland, I was completely underwhelmed.  And, if they already trimmed out any trees, well I shutter to think what a jungle it might have been (and still is).  I really didn't think it was much of a course (although I only played 9 holes as the other side was closed)  But still, for a muni, I thank goodness for ours here in GB, a light year better than Portland's)
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

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